<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There are none so blind as those who refuse to see, Paul. Honestly, it doesn’t take any kind of heavy mental physics to understand not only the liability issue (Ron posted some good info on that in case you missed it), but also the necessity of protecting national resources for all of us from the dolts who think that their “wants” (the “I want to pull out, so I’ll just move those barricades, and since the park is closed and I want to see it anyway, I’ll just climb down the embankment regardless of the ecosystem I’m destroying . . . and since there’s no one here to stop me, I’ll just do some poaching while I’m at it, and this would be a great place to set up a portable meth lab to make me some money so I can continue to do whatever the heck I want” crowd) trump all.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>But, I guess it better fits <b>your</b> narrative to go with a “political theater” meme rather than a common sense solution to stop those who demonstrated they have absolutely NO respect.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As for third parties, Scott already pointed out one of the problems: no everyone who is interested in third parties agree – even remotely –about what those third parties would look like.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>But, of course, the bigger issue, it seems to me, is that we don’t have proportional representation in this country (look up Duverger’s Law for some solid info rather than fantasy) . . . we don’t have it on a state level and we don’t have it on a national level, so unless/until you come up with some coherent plan to completely overhaul our electoral process, it’s just a silly idea that makes some people like you feel better.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Look: if we can’t get a constitutional amendment for something as basic as equal rights (remember the ERA?), do you <b>really</b> think there will be the support required to modify the Constitution for this . . . particularly since corporations are now people, too?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And, here’s a clue: if you think that things like reforming “entitlements,” health care reform, and reforming the tax code are challenging, those things absolutely pale in comparison to fundamentally changing our electoral process so that third party candidates are viable in anything other in very isolated instances where they haven’t been very effective, anyway, it seems to me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You won’t find me disagreeing that things aren’t working well now, although it’s pretty clear to me that we would likely disagree on the causes of the dysfunction.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And, if you want to believe that a third party system would be some miracle fix – by all means, have at it and invest all the energy you want in coming up with a practical and <b>coherent</b> strategy for making that happen. I’ve followed those discussions for years & years, and poking holes in strategies put forth up to now is like taking candy from a baby. Perhaps you’ve got some new strategy that will prove everyone else who has tried to inept . . . and the doubters like me wrong. Knock yourself out! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Until then, quit treating those of us who see the sheer folly of your notion as though we’re just too stupid to understand, or as if we’re just good little party bots too happy to throw away our votes, or as if we’re refusing to see some simple common-sense fix because we don’t buy into your thinking. That’s just not the case.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Saundra<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Moscow, ID<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Well-behaved women seldom make history.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>~ Laurel Thatcher Ulrich<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Paul Rumelhart [mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 11, 2013 10:55 AM<br><b>To:</b> Saundra Lund; 'Kai Eiselein'; vision2020@moscow.com<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] If you can't keep them from stopping.....<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Going out of your way to put police tape around a monument in order to keep people out, or to barricade the entrance to an otherwise unmanned turnout is simply political theater. You don't seem to mind so much, but I find it insulting. It's just a power play. They were afraid people might not be inconvenienced enough by the shutdown to call their Congressman, so they upped the ante a bit.<br><br>It's also a good litmus test for where people think government fits into things. Is it a massive monolithic structure that we should be grateful exists, or is it a necessary evil that we should keep tightly under control?<br><br>Oh, and one good reason for encouraging third party candidates, despite your assertion that they will all automatically be corrupted by the system, is that with more political parties holding more seats in Congress there will have to be more negotiation since no one party will have enough seats to override every other party. The Democrats will have to reach out to the Libertarians on social issues, while the Libertarians and the Greens can hope to advance a pro-civil liberties agenda together, for example. Things that can't happen now very easily.<br><br>Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>On Friday, October 11, 2013 12:37 AM, Saundra Lund <<a href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm">v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm</a>> wrote:</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>So, tell us, Kai: what other rules & regulations do you think we should be<br>free to pick & choose to follow?<br><br>Personally, having seen the havoc wreaked by far too many dolts in national,<br>state, and local parks by people with absolutely no respect who think that<br>their wants trump everything, I'm glad the national parks are closed since<br>they can't be staffed due to the shutdown. It takes no time for those<br>idiots you support to cause decades of damage, but I guess you want to<br>ignore that, don't you?<br><br>As for other idiotic closures, there are certainly many, which is exactly<br>what the GOP wanted to happen, or have you missed all those positively<br>orgasmic interviews? I addressed this one because *you* brought it up while<br>failing to recognize the role of the idiots who thought they were above<br>everyone else.<br><br>I think it's a sign of what's wrong with America that people like you are<br>all up in arms about national park closures while remaining stunningly mute<br>about the closures that are causing *real* harm rather than silly<br>inconveniences to people.<br><br>What party am I a good little soldier for? It's always disappointing that<br>people like you try to simplistically categorize people no matter how<br>incorrect you are so you can dismiss them. Why are you so bitter? Oh, I<br>get it: you're POed because some of us are unwilling to throw away our<br>votes to support hopeless third party candidates you think will "save" us as<br>though they aren't just as subject to the same corruption as the two-party<br>system. A great example of my point is what's happened to the so-called Tea<br>Party. For the sake of convenience, we'll just ignore that it was an<br>astroturffed "movement" to begin with :-) Funny how the Libertarians who<br>were initially attracted have all been shouted down by the Right Wing Moral<br>Jackbooted Thugs, eh? But, some other third party will magically be<br>different, eh? Keep up with your magical thinking while I stay in reality<br>:-)<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div id=yqtfd89844><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Kai Eiselein [mailto:<a href="mailto:fotopro63@hotmail.com">fotopro63@hotmail.com</a>] <br>Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:04 AM<br>To: Saundra Lund; <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] If you can't keep them from stopping.....<br><br>Nice try, Sandra, but access to the pullouts should have never been taken<br>away. The directive to close them is purely a spiteful, vindictive decision<br>straight out of D.C.<br>Reckless behaivor? Since when is pulling over to look at a view reckless?<br>You think there are ranger stationed at each and every one of them when the<br>park is open? <br>It's funny you've nothing to say about any of the other idiotic closures.<br>I see you are still being good little soldier for your party, don't<br>question, just follow.<br><br>----------------------------------------<br>> From: <a href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm">v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm</a><br>> To: <a href="mailto:fotopro63@hotmail.com">fotopro63@hotmail.com</a>; <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] If you can't keep them from stopping.....<br>> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 02:01:15 -0700<br>><br>> "A state highway that runs through the national park was closed after <br>> Grand Canyon officials found tourists removing barricades at overlooks <br>> along the road."<br>> <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/nearly-two-dozen-cited-" target="_blank">http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/nearly-two-dozen-cited-</a><br>> for-en<br>> tering-grand-canyon-after-budget-battle-forced-parks-closure/2013/10/0<br>> 9/94a7 2f2e-30dd-11e3-ad00-ec4c6b31cbed_story.html<br>><br>> Yes -- I'm glad you agree that those "tourists" are responsible for <br>> the necessary decision to close the highway since they thought they <br>> were special enough that they could just move the barricades. You & I <br>> both know that if something went wrong with their illegal behavior, <br>> they'd be the first to sue, something they made clear to us with their<br>reckless behavior.<br>><br>> Yeah, it sucks when a few spoil things for the many, so I'm glad to <br>> see your ire directed where it belongs : at the "tourists."<br>><br>><br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a> <br>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>]<br>> On Behalf Of Kai Eiselein<br>> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 2:28 PM<br>> To: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>> Subject: [Vision2020] If you can't keep them from stopping.....<br>><br>> Then shut down the highway.<br>><br>><br>> <a href="http://www.outsideonline.com/news-from-the-field/Citations-Issued-at-G" target="_blank">http://www.outsideonline.com/news-from-the-field/Citations-Issued-at-G</a><br>> rand-C <br>> anyon.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=facebook<br>> post<br>><br>> <br><br>=======================================================<br>List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>