<HTML><HEAD></HEAD>
<BODY dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>Interesting how our religious ideas change with the passage of time.
I don’t mean to say that we all change in the same direction, but for me growing
up in a Southern Baptist culture with a firm belief in heaven and hell (with a
lot of Bible study to support me, and Donovan you know where you were going,
according to us) to being perfectly comfortable shedding a belief in an eternal
life in whatever domicile one gets assigned, is where I now fit, both
emotionally and intellectually. It was Socrates who said if death is
nothing more than a nice long sleep, that works for me. Well, it works for
me, too. As a Christian, for many years I believed that we were headed for
heaven (some of us) and everyone else was assigned somewhere else. Every
time I read Elie Wiesel’s <STRONG>Night, </STRONG>the paradox is further
proof that should I believe I am headed for heaven, and a Jew with a faith
much stronger than mine would ever be, is not, no longer works.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I might not be quite so put off if religions were not by nature
sexist. The OT, with only one exception of which I can think, defines
females, not by their intellect, but by their anatomy and biological function,
which is always subordinate to males. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I no longer have to deal with religious dissonance...that’s very nice; only
political and human conundrums take up my time, and that’s plenty for me.
Of course all my relatives have me on their prayer lists...but Doug Wilson’s
posturing is irrelevant. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sue H. </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 09, 2013 11:41 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=nielsen@uidaho.edu
href="mailto:nielsen@uidaho.edu">Nielsen, Ralph</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] I like to think there really is a Heaven .
. .</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: #000; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">
<DIV><SPAN>Ralph,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>If nobody goes to Heaven or Hell it would be because it doesn't
exist. I believe Jesus died on a Cross so I could enter a "place" with God
despite my countless personal flaws. Although I have no evidence to present this
case to others, so it can only be presented as a personal belief.
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><SPAN>
<DIV>I know many people who continue to do good even though they are long dead.
If God didn't allow people to do good at any point, he would be stopping good
from happening, which would make a good God a contradiction. So I would not
honor such a God, even if it meant he <SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; COLOR: black">smite </SPAN><FONT
size=3 face="Times New Roman">me w</FONT>ith a thunderbolt. There is no such
thing as time outside this Universe. So once we "have" existed, we will
always "exist" in the spiritual sense. </DIV></SPAN>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>Donovan J. Arnold</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV class=hr
style="FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; HEIGHT: 0px; BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 5px 0px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"
readonly="true"></DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "Nielsen, Ralph"
<nielsen@uidaho.edu><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
"vision2020@moscow.com" <vision2020@moscow.com> <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Donovan Arnold
<donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>; Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, September 9,
2013 10:59 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> I like
to think there really is a Heaven . . .<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=y_msg_container>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=yiv1495166079>
<DIV>
<DIV>Beautiful thoughts, Donovan and Tom. But don't count on them coming
true.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In the Hebrew religion, in the Old Testament/Hebew Bible, nobody goes to
heaven because God does not want people to go to heaven and live forever with
him. In fact, he doesn't want people to live forever at all. That is why Adam
and Eve were kicked out of the garden of Eden before they would find the tree of
life, eat of it and live forever (Genesis 3:19-24).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In the entire Old Testament/Hebew Bible only two people went to heaven:
Enoch and Elijah. They were taken up alive because when we die we cease to
exist. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This means that any good we want to do we have to do now, while we are
alive.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ralph Nielsen</DIV>
<DIV>______________________________________</DIV>
<DIV><PRE style="WHITE-SPACE: pre-wrap">Me too. For me it would be to meet again and talk to all the people I have ever taken care of without a disability, advanced age or dementia being in the way of our conversation, and to see them happy and healthy with God and their loved ones. Donovan J. Arnold
________________________________
The things one thinks of at 3 in the morning, such as . . .
I like to think that there really is a Heaven that you enter upon your passing and it begins with the happiest day of your life.
For me . . . I would be sitting with friends at a table at "My Brother's Place" (a tavern in Newport, Rhode Island) in March of 1973. I would ask that attractive redhead sitting at the next table to dance . . . and it would start all over again.
And you? What would Heaven be to you?
Tom Hansen
</PRE></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
=======================================================<BR>List services made
available by First Step Internet,<BR>serving the communities of the Palouse
since
1994.<BR>
http://www.fsr.net<BR>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>=======================================================</DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>