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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
I wanted to reply to this sooner, but I was on vacation.<br>
<br>
Read Gary Taubes book "Good Calories, Bad Calories". Or search
for "gary taubes why we get fat" on YouTube.<br>
<br>
It would appear that the "high fat causes heart attacks"
hypothesis isn't as strong as it was once thought to be. Research
comparing high fat / low carb unlimited food intake diets vs. the
traditional high carb, low fat, restricted calorie diet
consistently shows the high fat low carb diets allow the subjects
to lose more weight and it makes their cholesterol numbers
better. <br>
<br>
Here is an article from the New York Times talking about the
subject:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/09/science/09tier.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0">http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/09/science/09tier.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0</a><br>
<br>
I chuckle reading this, because there are hallmarks of the climate
science debate here, too. Politics gets involved and suddenly it
hurts your reputation to be skeptical of the consensus view.
Everyone studies the consensus topics, but nobody researches
topics that by their very nature conflict with the consensus
view. That doesn't make either one of the looked-down-upon topics
any more true, but I do find it amusing to see human nature at
work.<br>
<br>
That's not to say that high fat low carb diets are perfect. I
have seen research that shows that if you have a pre-existing
heart condition, then the ketogenic diet might make it harder to
recover in the event of a heart attack. I've also seen research
that suggests that pregnant women who are obese and on that kind
of diet can affect their babies by making them fatter and have
smaller livers. I look at those risks and compare them to the
risks of being obese, and I side with the diet that will help me
lose that weight the best and that makes my cholesterol numbers
better to boot. I mean, look around. How many really old fat
people do you see? But I admit that it's a complicated area of
study. Certainly, if I ever get pregnant, I'll drop off the diet
for nine months. <br>
<br>
Besides, most of the high fat studies I've run across (I haven't
done an exhaustive search by any means) involve high fat / high
carb diets instead of high fat / low carb diets. In other words,
simply adding fat to the traditional diet appears to be what is
risky. Especially to mice, or rabbits. Yes, one study showed
that eating fat from meat doesn't sit will with an herbivore's
biology.<br>
<br>
I know one data point is just an anecdote, but my appetite has
already returned to normal, I don't fight sleep in the afternoons,
I don't crave ice cream or sweets, I'm not constantly running to
the bathroom, I don't feel the urge to keep eating when I know
I've had enough, and I seem to have as much energy as I had before
and I believe that I'm thinking clearer. And, my pants are
starting to get loose around the waist.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 08/31/2013 06:43 AM, Art Deco wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAB8VJX6CydkEfbQGk03L8xwEMau49HMAzCQg1ogacJf=cg+4bg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>@Paul,<br>
<br>
</div>
Do you think that eating a high fat diet for years might have
caused the condition Atkins died of? Perhaps you should read a
little about the long term effects of high fat diets, those high
in "bad" fats like beef fat.<br>
<br>
w.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 12:40 AM,
lfalen <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com" target="_blank">lfalen@turbonet.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="LTR">
<div dir="LTR">
<p>Mediterranean may be misleading as one might think of
a lot of pasta. Not the case. The DASH diet is
similar. One should eat whole grains and a minimum of
processed or high carb. foods. The more color the
better (blueberries etc.), eat legumes and nuts.</p>
<p>Roger<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
style="padding-left:1em;font-family:tahoma,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px;margin-left:1em;border-left-color:blue;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid"
dir="LTR">
<hr size="1">
<div>
<div class="h5">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: lfalen <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com"
target="_blank">lfalen@turbonet.com</a>><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>, "Art
Deco" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com"
target="_blank">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a>>,
"Paul Rumelhart" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"
target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Date: 08/30/13 17:58<br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] ketogenic diets<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<p>I would not recommend any of the diets you
mentioned for long term. the Atkins diet can
lead to health problems in the long term. It
is especially dangerous for any one with
kidney problems. For overall good heath I
would recommend the Mediterranean Diet or
something close to it. In other words a diet
with lots of variety, high in fruits and
vegetables, vegatable oil such as Olive,
some fish, a small amount of red meat, and
low fat dairy products.</p>
<p>Roger<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
style="padding-left:1em;font-family:tahoma,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px;margin-left:1em;border-left-color:blue;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid"
dir="ltr">
<hr size="1">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: "Paul Rumelhart" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"
target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>><br>
To: "Art Deco" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com"
target="_blank">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a>>,
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Date: 08/30/13 17:02<br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] ketogenic diets<br>
<br>
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times
new roman,new york,times,serif">I've seen
this claim before. Here is what snopes
says: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.snopes.com/medical/doctor/atkins.asp"
target="_blank">http://www.snopes.com/medical/doctor/atkins.asp</a><br>
<br>
When he went in to the hospital because of
head injuries he sustained from a fall
outside of his clinic on April 8, 2003, he
weighed 195 pounds. When he died after
being in a coma 9 days later on April 17,
2003, he weighed in at 258 pounds.<br>
<br>
I doubt he gained 60 pounds in 9 days on
the Atkins diet while in a coma. A quote
from the spokesperson for the Atkins
Physician Counsel: <font color="#000000"
face="Trebuchet MS,Bookman Old
Style,Arial" size="3">"During his coma,
as he deteriorated and his major organs
failed, fluid retention and bloating
dramatically distorted his body and left
him at 258 pounds at the time of his
death, a documented weight gain of over
60 pounds."</font><br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:times new
roman,new
york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<div style="font-family:times new
roman,new
york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1">
<font face="Arial"><b><span
style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
Art Deco <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com"
target="_blank">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Friday, August 30, 2013 3:59 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Vision2020] ketogenic diets<br>
</font> </div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>To see how well it worked
long term for Atkins himself
read about his condition at
his death and how his widow
(an interesting story in
itself) tried to suppress the
photos and evidence of what a
bloated pig he was at his
death.<br>
<br>
</div>
w.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at
5:34 PM, Paul Rumelhart <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
<div>
<div
style="font-family:times
new roman,new
york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">Is
anyone out there on, or
have been on, a
ketogenic (low carb)
diet like Atkins, Zone,
South Beach, etc? Did
it work for you? Did
you run into any
problems?<br>
<br>
I'm in my third week of
a low carb diet, losing
around 2-3 pounds a
week. I'm shooting for
less than 20g of carbs a
day, which basically
means no breads, no
potatoes, no pasta, and
no sugar-laden
anything. For those
unfamiliar with the
reasoning behind being
on one, you basically
have to look at your
weight problem not as a
calories in vs calories
out problem, but one
involving fat storage
mechanisms. Carbs and
sugars cause an insulin
response, and insulin is
what triggers your body
to store fat. Avoiding
carbs and getting your
calories from fat and
protein doesn't cause
insulin spiking or
insulin resistance,
which allows your body
to shed the excess
pounds. It also fixes
your appetite so you are
not hungry all the time
and eat less.<br>
<br>
So far I'm feeling great
on the diet, but I just
want to know if someone
has tried it and grown a
extra eye or something.<span><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Paul<br>
</font></span>
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color="#888888"><br>
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