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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Here’s the thing, Paul, and I’m posting this publicly this time since you’ve chosen to ignore me when I’ve nicely written to you privately before about your language. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Have some respect. We have young people who read Vision 2020, and they do not need to be subjected to your foul explosions. <b><u>I</u></b> don’t need to be subjected to your foul explosions . . . no one does. The rest of us manage to communicate well enough without repeatedly lobbing frustrated f-bombs in a public forum, so why can’t you?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Yeah, I know . . . you’re or your pals are going to accuse me of being a “nanny” or something like that, but I really don’t care. It’s clear you don’t give a rip about the young people here or else you’d not repeatedly lob your f-bombs <b>in a public forum</b>, so if me expressing my concern for them makes me a nanny to you, to be it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Just knock it off.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Rumelhart<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, August 25, 2013 7:49 PM<br><b>To:</b> Rosemary Huskey<br><b>Cc:</b> 'viz'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>Christ on a crutch, sorry if I offended everyone by my use of the word "fuck". <br><br>But since everyone's sensibilities are fragile around here, let me reword my last statement to say "In a perfect world, he would be able to do as he fancies, the good God be willing."<br><br>Also, you can't throw a cat around here without hitting another list member trying to psychoanalyze me. The phrase "whatever the fuck he wants" is a common phrase used when describing what it is a Free Man (tm) can do.<br><br>The entire genesis of this thread lets us know right of the bat that we don't live in that perfect world.<br><br>Paul<br><br>On 08/25/2013 06:18 PM, Rosemary Huskey wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Well, Paul, no one on earth likes strong Anglo Saxon words more than I do – but in your case, the undisguised rage in your last sentence seems to indicate an anger management issue that might is way out of proportion to the subject at hand and the general tone of the conversation. Take a deep breath and a walk around the block. It’s summertime and the living is easy . . . . or something like that.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Rose Huskey</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a> [<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Rumelhart<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, August 25, 2013 3:37 PM<br><b>To:</b> Scott Dredge<br><b>Cc:</b> viz<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>Bullshit. He was buying a home defense weapon. If there were death threats against me and mine, I would do the same. Besides, he was found not guilty. In a perfect world, he could whatever the fuck he wanted.<br><br>Paul<br><br>On 08/25/2013 02:53 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Based on photographic evidence, audio evidence, the measurable timeline, GZ's medical report, TM's autopsy report combined with corroborating witness testimony, it's difficult to draw any conclusion other than TM being on top of GZ and hitting him for at least 45 seconds prior to the fatal and only shot. GZ shouldn't have followed TM and should have stayed in his truck. TM shouldn't have attacked him. But TM did what he did and GZ did what he did, so here we are.<br><br>This whole thing has already spun as a 'perfect storm'. And if GZ is going to do things like tour a Kel Tec factory, pose for photo ops, and let it be known he's interested in acquiring more fire power, he's putting himself, his family, and anyone around him in danger. His actions are tantamount to 'bring it on' taunting. Don't be surprised if someone takes the bait resulting in more tragedy. Don't be surprised if GZ blasts someone innocent that he mistakenly believes was coming after him. Don't be surprised when there is another dead body and GZ claims 'self defense'.<o:p></o:p></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>From: <a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>; <a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a><br>Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 13:11:03 -0700<br>CC: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>He wasn't 'going out to call the police on criminal activity.' He could have called them from his home and stayed there. Why do you even saying that? <br><br>He was out and about because he wanted to play the cop, and he had a gun. He could have stayed home with his gun, like he was told to do. <br><br>You keep assuming his defense theory is true. It was effective, it led to the verdict, but that doesn't make it true.<br><br>Sunil<o:p></o:p></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 11:55:13 -0700<br>From: <a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a><br>CC: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>Do you think that neighborhood watch programs are a bad thing? If you can posit for a moment that guns can come in handy for self-defense, then going out to call the police on criminal activity might be a time when you have a better chance of needing to protect yourself than when you are, say, just going to get groceries.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>If you think it wasn't self-defense, then why was Zimmerman doing his best to lead the cops to the encounter? Why were there no injuries on Martin consistent with an initial attack by Zimmerman? Do you think he shot him first? Then why did witnesses see them on the ground fighting? To me, it just doesn't add up.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Paul<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Joe Campbell <a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com"><philosopher.joe@gmail.com></a><br><b>To:</b> Paul Rumelhart <a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"><godshatter@yahoo.com></a> <br><b>Cc:</b> Scott Dredge <a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com"><scooterd408@hotmail.com></a>; viz <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><vision2020@moscow.com></a> <br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:26 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p><div id=ecxyiv2265935814><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>"... he thought he was going to die and defended himself." First, the only evidence you have for this is that Zimmerman said it was so. There were no witnesses to corroborate this. We don't know what happened. My interpretation of the results of the trial is that there was no reason to disbelieve Zimmerman, so no reason to find him guilty. That does not mean that we should believe him. There is no reason to believe him either. The fact is we don't know what happened in those moments prior to the shooting.<br><br>Second, Zimmerman was out looking for "criminals" like some want-a-be cop, stalked a suspected criminal who turned out to be a boy, called to report it and was advised to stop but didn't do so, got out of his car to follow the "suspect," then (supposedly) shot the boy because he feared for his life. <br><br>I'm sorry but if you are not a cop and you leave your house with a gun pretending to "protect" your neighborhood, my sympathy level will drop dramatically should something go wrong. <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>Zimmerman's actions do not sound like self-defense to me. I am not warped by the mainstream media. In fact, I think this is just another example of how fear and guns together are more likely to lead to a bad outcome than a good one. Incidents like this are precisely why we need gun control. Some people are just not smart enough to know how to use guns with the required safety and care. The Zimmerman case proves that. <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>And saying that folks are dupes just because they happen to share some of the views of the mainstream media is no different from saying that you are a racist just because you happen to share some of the views of racists.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><br>I'm not supporting Zimmerman. I'm just dismayed by the attitudes people have towards him based on nothing but wishful thinking, as far as I can see. These attitudes are shared across the country, and is making life for this man dangerous. All because he thought he was going to die and defended himself. His bad luck that he did so at a time when guns are the new boogieman, and that his attacker didn't have the common sense to be a white male.<br><br>It's really how quickly and absolutely this narrative I keep talking about solidified that scares the ever-living crap out of me. It means the main stream media is still king, and that your average American still just soaks it right up apparently uncritically.<br><br>Oh, and I don't plan to shut up, thank you anyway.<span style='color:#888888'><br><br><span class=ecxyiv2265935814hoenzb>Paul</span></span> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><br><br>On 08/25/2013 08:39 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>Of course I don't condone the bounty, or death threats. It is still a mystery to me why you keep condoning Zimmerman. If you want folks to stop talking about him, why don't you start us off? Really, I only post on that guy when you or others try to defend him, or act shocked about the public outrage. Otherwise, I don't really think about him much.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><br>You're right. He should look properly chastened at all times so as not to offend people like yourself. I bet he was laughing at a joke! The bastard.<br><br>I will admit that if he was thinking in terms of PR, then staging a photoshoot at a gun store was not the brightest move. I suspect, though, that he can't move three feet in public without some self-righteous a-hole tracking his every move and taking his picture. It won't last long, though. They'll get him in civil court soon where the threshold for evidence is not so high.<br><br>While we're on the subject, does anyone out there in viz-land condone the bounty put on him by the New Black Panther Party? Does anyone condemn it? How about the multiple death threats he and his family have been getting? I normally wouldn't ask this, but the reactions here to this case have so disappointed me that I just have to.<span style='color:#888888'><br><br>Paul</span> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><br><br>On 08/24/2013 10:16 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>I think it's STUPID of Zimmerman to be cheesing it up for photos while touring a gun factory. I was seeing shades that idiot president of CA fish and game who bagged a mountain lion in Idaho and went on the cover of some magazine beaming while holding the dead carcass.<br><br>FWIW - I disagree that Zimmerman was hunting Martin, but nonetheless he did fatally shoot him and this type of behavior is quite the opposite of being remorseful. But hey, if he wants to stay around Florida and make himself visible while there's a bounty on his head, that's certainly his choice and likely another bad choice in a growing list.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>CC: <a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com" target="_blank">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>; <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>From: <a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory<br>Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:30:05 -0700<br>To: <a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>I said it was closer to hunting than self defense. It was. And Martin was a kid; Zimmerman was not. And Martin is dead. Maybe that is why no one is blaming him. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>Did Martin make a mistake? Apparently -- but really we don't know that any more than we know why Zimmerman did what he did. But Martin paid a hefty price for his mistake. Zimmerman did not. That's why folks are upset.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><br>On Aug 24, 2013, at 6:20 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><br>That's the narrative I'm talking about. It completely ignores Trayvon Martin's own actions that helped lead to his death and it exaggerates George Zimmerman's actions. Following someone down a sidewalk is not the same as "hunting" a person. We have exactly zero evidence that Zimmerman followed Martin in order to kill him. <br><br>But have fun with the narrative. If you happen across Zimmerman, get in a few licks for the rest of us.<br><br>Paul <br><br>On 08/24/2013 05:44 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>Goes against the narrative? The guy stalked a kid, against the advice of a 911 operator, and ended up killing him. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>Honestly, I just don't get it. Stalking and shooting is a lot closer to hunting than self-defense. Why is that so difficult for you to see?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><br>On Aug 24, 2013, at 5:11 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><br>Well, he and his family do get death threats regularly: <a href="http://globalgrind.com/2013/08/03/robert-zimmerman-reveals-family-400-death-threats-per-minute-starbucks-employee-george-trayvon-martin-details/" target="_blank">http://globalgrind.com/2013/08/03/robert-zimmerman-reveals-family-400-death-threats-per-minute-starbucks-employee-george-trayvon-martin-details/</a><br><br>And there is a $10,000 bounty put on Zimmerman for his capture by the New Black Panther Party: <a href="http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/07/19/Black-Panthers-2012-video-for-Zimmerman-bounty-resurfaces/3711374236844/" target="_blank">http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/07/19/Black-Panthers-2012-video-for-Zimmerman-bounty-resurfaces/3711374236844/</a><br><br>So maybe he is in need of a good home-defense weapon.<br><br>Of course, progressives are not allowed to feel bad about that because it goes against the narrative. Pity, one could almost feel bad for a guy who is reviled on the national stage for protecting himself from getting his ass beat, whether or not it was his own stupidity that got him there. <br><br>Oh, well. It's much easier to think of him as a monster. <br><br>Paul<br><br>On 08/24/2013 03:29 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><a href="http://www.mediaite.com/online/george-zimmerman-went-gun-shopping-today/" target="_blank">http://www.mediaite.com/online/george-zimmerman-went-gun-shopping-today/</a><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre style='background:white'>=======================================================<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'> List services made available by First Step Internet,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'> <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>=======================================================<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>=======================================================<br>List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br>======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a> =======================================================<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br>======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a> =======================================================<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>