<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">The Florida stand your ground law had nothing to do with this case. Zimmerman wasn't in danger from Martin until he was attacked. Once he was attacked, he was mostly unable to retreat, though he did try.<br><br>Paul<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Moscow Cares <moscowcares@moscow.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe@gmail.com>; viz <vision2020@moscow.com>
<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, August 25, 2013 12:02 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv2427502251"><div><div>FYI, Mr. Rumelhart . . .</div><div><br></div><div>I strongly believe in and support neighborhood watch programs. They provide a strong sense of security for the residents.</div><div><br></div><div>It's Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law that I furiously believe should be repealed before the next "Trayvon Martin".</div><div><br></div><div>And, before you say that the Zimmerman jury did not condider <span style="">Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, let me inform you that two of the jurors that went public, following the trial, said that </span><span style="">Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law was discussed and considered.</span></div><div><span
style=""><br></span></div><div><span style="">'Nuff said!<br></span><br><div>Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .</div><div><br></div><div>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)</div><div><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.moscowcares.com/">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></div><div> </div><div><div>Tom Hansen</div><div>Moscow, Idaho</div><div><br></div><div>"<span style="font-size:medium;">There's room at the top they are telling you still</span><span style="font-size:medium;"> </span></div><span style="font-size:medium;">But first you must learn how to smile as you kill </span><br style="font-size:medium;"><span style="font-size:medium;">If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span></div><div><font size="3"><span style=""><br></span></font></div><div><font size="3"><span style="">- John Lennon<br></span></font><div> </div></div><div><br></div></div><div><br>On Aug 25, 2013, at
11:55 AM, Paul Rumelhart <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;">Do you think that neighborhood watch programs are a bad thing? If you can posit for a moment that guns can come in handy for self-defense, then going out to call the police on criminal activity might be a time when you have a better chance of needing to protect yourself than when you are, say, just going to get groceries.<br><div><br><span></span></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><span>If you think it wasn't self-defense, then why was Zimmerman doing his best to lead the cops to the encounter? Why were
there no injuries on Martin consistent with an initial attack by Zimmerman? Do you think he shot him first? Then why did witnesses see them on the ground fighting? To me, it just
doesn't add up.</span></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><br><span></span></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><span>Paul<br></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;"> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Joe Campbell <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> Paul Rumelhart <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"
target="_blank" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> <br><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Cc:</span></b> Scott Dredge <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>>; viz <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>>
<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:26 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory<br> </font> </div> <div class="yiv2427502251y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv2427502251"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>"... he thought he was going to die and defended himself." First, the only evidence you have for this is that Zimmerman said it was so. There were no witnesses to corroborate this. We don't know what happened. My interpretation of the results of the trial is that there was no reason to disbelieve Zimmerman, so no reason to find him guilty. That does not mean that we should believe him. There is no reason to believe him either. The fact is we don't know what happened in those moments prior to the shooting.<br>
<br>Second, Zimmerman was out looking for "criminals" like some want-a-be cop, stalked a suspected criminal who turned out to be a boy, called to report it and was advised to stop but didn't do so, got out of his car to follow the "suspect," then (supposedly) shot the boy because he feared for his life. <br>
<br>I'm sorry but if you are not a cop and you leave your house with a gun pretending to "protect" your neighborhood, my sympathy level will drop dramatically should something go wrong. <br><br></div>Zimmerman's actions do not sound like self-defense to me. I am not warped by the mainstream media. In fact, I think this is just another example of how fear and guns together are more likely to lead to a bad outcome than a good one. Incidents like this are precisely why we need gun control. Some people are just not smart enough to know how to use guns with the required safety and care. The Zimmerman case proves that. <br>
<br></div>And saying that folks are dupes just because they happen to share some of the views of the mainstream media is no different from saying that you are a racist just because you happen to share some of the views of racists.<br>
</div><div class="yiv2427502251gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="yiv2427502251gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Paul Rumelhart <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="yiv2427502251gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div>
<div><br>
I'm not supporting Zimmerman. I'm just dismayed by the attitudes
people have towards him based on nothing but wishful thinking, as
far as I can see. These attitudes are shared across the country,
and is making life for this man dangerous. All because he thought
he was going to die and defended himself. His bad luck that he did
so at a time when guns are the new boogieman, and that his
attacker didn't have the common sense to be a white male.<br>
<br>
It's really how quickly and absolutely this narrative I keep
talking about solidified that scares the ever-living crap out of
me. It means the main stream media is still king, and that your
average American still just soaks it right up apparently
uncritically.<br>
<br>
Oh, and I don't plan to shut up, thank you anyway.<span class="yiv2427502251HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Paul</font></span><div><div class="yiv2427502251h5"><br>
<br>
On 08/25/2013 08:39 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:<br>
</div></div></div><div><div class="yiv2427502251h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Of course I don't condone the bounty, or death
threats. It is still a mystery to me why you keep condoning
Zimmerman. If you want folks to stop talking about him, why
don't you start us off? Really, I only post on that guy when you
or others try to defend him, or act shocked about the public
outrage. Otherwise, I don't really think about him much.<br>
</div>
<div class="yiv2427502251gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="yiv2427502251gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Paul
Rumelhart <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="yiv2427502251gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div>
<div><br>
You're right. He should look properly chastened at all
times so as not to offend people like yourself. I bet
he was laughing at a joke! The bastard.<br>
<br>
I will admit that if he was thinking in terms of PR,
then staging a photoshoot at a gun store was not the
brightest move. I suspect, though, that he can't move
three feet in public without some self-righteous a-hole
tracking his every move and taking his picture. It
won't last long, though. They'll get him in civil court
soon where the threshold for evidence is not so high.<br>
<br>
While we're on the subject, does anyone out there in
viz-land condone the bounty put on him by the New Black
Panther Party? Does anyone condemn it? How about the
multiple death threats he and his family have been
getting? I normally wouldn't ask this, but the
reactions here to this case have so disappointed me that
I just have to.<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Paul</font></span>
<div><br>
<br>
On 08/24/2013 10:16 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I think it's STUPID of Zimmerman to be
cheesing it up for photos while touring a gun
factory. I was seeing shades that idiot president
of CA fish and game who bagged a mountain lion in
Idaho and went on the cover of some magazine beaming
while holding the dead carcass.<br>
<br>
FWIW - I disagree that Zimmerman was hunting Martin,
but nonetheless he did fatally shoot him and this
type of behavior is quite the opposite of being
remorseful. But hey, if he wants to stay around
Florida and make himself visible while there's a
bounty on his head, that's certainly his choice and
likely another bad choice in a growing list.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<hr>CC: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>; <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
From: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours
gun factory<br>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:30:05 -0700<br>
To: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>I said it was closer to hunting than self
defense. It was. And Martin was a kid;
Zimmerman was not. And Martin is dead. Maybe
that is why no one is blaming him. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Did Martin make a mistake? Apparently --
but really we don't know that any more than we
know why Zimmerman did what he did. But Martin
paid a hefty price for his mistake. Zimmerman
did not. That's why folks are upset.</div>
<div><br>
On Aug 24, 2013, at 6:20 PM, Paul Rumelhart
<<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div><br>
That's the narrative I'm talking about.
It completely ignores Trayvon Martin's own
actions that helped lead to his death and
it exaggerates George Zimmerman's
actions. Following someone down a
sidewalk is not the same as "hunting" a
person. We have exactly zero evidence
that Zimmerman followed Martin in order to
kill him. <br>
<br>
But have fun with the narrative. If you
happen across Zimmerman, get in a few
licks for the rest of us.<br>
<br>
Paul <br>
<br>
On 08/24/2013 05:44 PM, Joe Campbell
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>Goes against the narrative? The guy
stalked a kid, against the advice of a
911 operator, and ended up killing him. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Honestly, I just don't get it.
Stalking and shooting is a lot closer to
hunting than self-defense. Why is that
so difficult for you to see?</div>
<div><br>
On Aug 24, 2013, at 5:11 PM, Paul
Rumelhart <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div><br>
Well, he and his family do get death
threats regularly: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://globalgrind.com/2013/08/03/robert-zimmerman-reveals-family-400-death-threats-per-minute-starbucks-employee-george-trayvon-martin-details/">http://globalgrind.com/2013/08/03/robert-zimmerman-reveals-family-400-death-threats-per-minute-starbucks-employee-george-trayvon-martin-details/</a><br>
<br>
And there is a $10,000 bounty put on
Zimmerman for his capture by the New
Black Panther Party: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/07/19/Black-Panthers-2012-video-for-Zimmerman-bounty-resurfaces/3711374236844/">http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/07/19/Black-Panthers-2012-video-for-Zimmerman-bounty-resurfaces/3711374236844/</a><br>
<br>
So maybe he is in need of a good
home-defense weapon.<br>
<br>
Of course, progressives are not
allowed to feel bad about that
because it goes against the
narrative. Pity, one could almost
feel bad for a guy who is reviled on
the national stage for protecting
himself from getting his ass beat,
whether or not it was his own
stupidity that got him there. <br>
<br>
Oh, well. It's much easier to think
of him as a monster. <br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 08/24/2013 03:29 PM, Scott Dredge
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div dir="ltr"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.mediaite.com/online/george-zimmerman-went-gun-shopping-today/">http://www.mediaite.com/online/george-zimmerman-went-gun-shopping-today/</a><br>
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