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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
Christ on a crutch, sorry if I offended everyone by my use of the
word "fuck". <br>
<br>
But since everyone's sensibilities are fragile around here, let me
reword my last statement to say "In a perfect world, he would be
able to do as he fancies, the good God be willing."<br>
<br>
Also, you can't throw a cat around here without hitting another
list member trying to psychoanalyze me. The phrase "whatever the
fuck he wants" is a common phrase used when describing what it is
a Free Man (tm) can do.<br>
<br>
The entire genesis of this thread lets us know right of the bat
that we don't live in that perfect world.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 08/25/2013 06:18 PM, Rosemary Huskey wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Well,
Paul, no one on earth likes strong Anglo Saxon words more
than I do – but in your case, the undisguised rage in your
last sentence seems to indicate an anger management issue
that might is way out of proportion to the subject at hand
and the general tone of the conversation. Take a deep
breath and a walk around the block. It’s summertime and the
living is easy . . . . or something like that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rose
Huskey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Paul Rumelhart<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, August 25, 2013 3:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Scott Dredge<br>
<b>Cc:</b> viz<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours
gun factory<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Bullshit. He was buying a home defense weapon. If there
were death threats against me and mine, I would do the
same. Besides, he was found not guilty. In a perfect
world, he could whatever the fuck he wanted.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 08/25/2013 02:53 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Based on
photographic evidence, audio evidence, the measurable
timeline, GZ's medical report, TM's autopsy report
combined with corroborating witness testimony, it's
difficult to draw any conclusion other than TM being on
top of GZ and hitting him for at least 45 seconds prior to
the fatal and only shot. GZ shouldn't have followed TM
and should have stayed in his truck. TM shouldn't have
attacked him. But TM did what he did and GZ did what he
did, so here we are.<br>
<br>
This whole thing has already spun as a 'perfect storm'.
And if GZ is going to do things like tour a Kel Tec
factory, pose for photo ops, and let it be known he's
interested in acquiring more fire power, he's putting
himself, his family, and anyone around him in danger. His
actions are tantamount to 'bring it on' taunting. Don't
be surprised if someone takes the bait resulting in more
tragedy. Don't be surprised if GZ blasts someone innocent
that he mistakenly believes was coming after him. Don't
be surprised when there is another dead body and GZ claims
'self defense'.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center">
<hr id="stopSpelling" size="2" width="100%"
align="center"></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">From: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a><br>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 13:11:03 -0700<br>
CC: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun
factory<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">He
wasn't 'going out to call the police on criminal
activity.' He could have called them from his home and
stayed there. Why do you even saying that? <br>
<br>
He was out and about because he wanted to play the
cop, and he had a gun. He could have stayed home with
his gun, like he was told to do. <br>
<br>
You keep assuming his defense theory is true. It was
effective, it led to the verdict, but that doesn't
make it true.<br>
<br>
Sunil<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center">
<hr id="ecxstopSpelling" size="2" width="100%"
align="center"></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Date:
Sun, 25 Aug 2013 11:55:13 -0700<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a><br>
CC: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours
gun factory<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">Do you
think that neighborhood watch programs are a bad
thing? If you can posit for a moment that guns
can come in handy for self-defense, then going out
to call the police on criminal activity might be a
time when you have a better chance of needing to
protect yourself than when you are, say, just
going to get groceries.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you think it wasn't
self-defense, then why was Zimmerman doing his
best to lead the cops to the encounter? Why
were there no injuries on Martin consistent with
an initial attack by Zimmerman? Do you think he
shot him first? Then why did witnesses see them
on the ground fighting? To me, it just doesn't
add up.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center;background:white"
align="center">
<hr size="1" width="100%" align="center"></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
Joe Campbell <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com"><philosopher.joe@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Rumelhart <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"><godshatter@yahoo.com></a>
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Scott Dredge <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com"><scooterd408@hotmail.com></a>;
viz <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><vision2020@moscow.com></a>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:26
AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy
beams as he tours gun factory</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div id="ecxyiv2265935814">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white">"...
he thought he was going to die and
defended himself." First, the only
evidence you have for this is that
Zimmerman said it was so. There were
no witnesses to corroborate this. We
don't know what happened. My
interpretation of the results of the
trial is that there was no reason to
disbelieve Zimmerman, so no reason
to find him guilty. That does not
mean that we should believe him.
There is no reason to believe him
either. The fact is we don't know
what happened in those moments prior
to the shooting.<br>
<br>
Second, Zimmerman was out looking
for "criminals" like some want-a-be
cop, stalked a suspected criminal
who turned out to be a boy, called
to report it and was advised to stop
but didn't do so, got out of his car
to follow the "suspect," then
(supposedly) shot the boy because he
feared for his life. <br>
<br>
I'm sorry but if you are not a cop
and you leave your house with a gun
pretending to "protect" your
neighborhood, my sympathy level will
drop dramatically should something
go wrong. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white">Zimmerman's
actions do not sound like self-defense
to me. I am not warped by the
mainstream media. In fact, I think
this is just another example of how
fear and guns together are more likely
to lead to a bad outcome than a good
one. Incidents like this are precisely
why we need gun control. Some people
are just not smart enough to know how
to use guns with the required safety
and care. The Zimmerman case proves
that. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white">And saying that
folks are dupes just because they happen
to share some of the views of the
mainstream media is no different from
saying that you are a racist just
because you happen to share some of the
views of racists.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white">On Sun, Aug
25, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Paul Rumelhart
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"
target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><br>
I'm not supporting Zimmerman. I'm
just dismayed by the attitudes
people have towards him based on
nothing but wishful thinking, as
far as I can see. These attitudes
are shared across the country, and
is making life for this man
dangerous. All because he thought
he was going to die and defended
himself. His bad luck that he did
so at a time when guns are the new
boogieman, and that his attacker
didn't have the common sense to be
a white male.<br>
<br>
It's really how quickly and
absolutely this narrative I keep
talking about solidified that
scares the ever-living crap out of
me. It means the main stream
media is still king, and that your
average American still just soaks
it right up apparently
uncritically.<br>
<br>
Oh, and I don't plan to shut up,
thank you anyway.<span
style="color:#888888"><br>
<br>
<span
class="ecxyiv2265935814hoenzb">Paul</span></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><br>
<br>
On 08/25/2013 08:39 AM, Joe
Campbell wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white">Of
course I don't condone the
bounty, or death threats. It
is still a mystery to me why
you keep condoning
Zimmerman. If you want folks
to stop talking about him,
why don't you start us off?
Really, I only post on that
guy when you or others try
to defend him, or act
shocked about the public
outrage. Otherwise, I don't
really think about him much.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white">On
Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 8:30
AM, Paul Rumelhart <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"
target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><br>
You're right. He
should look properly
chastened at all times
so as not to offend
people like yourself.
I bet he was laughing
at a joke! The
bastard.<br>
<br>
I will admit that if
he was thinking in
terms of PR, then
staging a photoshoot
at a gun store was not
the brightest move. I
suspect, though, that
he can't move three
feet in public without
some self-righteous
a-hole tracking his
every move and taking
his picture. It won't
last long, though.
They'll get him in
civil court soon where
the threshold for
evidence is not so
high.<br>
<br>
While we're on the
subject, does anyone
out there in viz-land
condone the bounty put
on him by the New
Black Panther Party?
Does anyone condemn
it? How about the
multiple death threats
he and his family have
been getting? I
normally wouldn't ask
this, but the
reactions here to this
case have so
disappointed me that I
just have to.<span
style="color:#888888"><br>
<br>
Paul</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><br>
<br>
On 08/24/2013 10:16
PM, Scott Dredge
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white">I think it's STUPID of
Zimmerman to be
cheesing it up for
photos while
touring a gun
factory. I was
seeing shades that
idiot president of
CA fish and game
who bagged a
mountain lion in
Idaho and went on
the cover of some
magazine beaming
while holding the
dead carcass.<br>
<br>
FWIW - I disagree
that Zimmerman was
hunting Martin,
but nonetheless he
did fatally shoot
him and this type
of behavior is
quite the opposite
of being
remorseful. But
hey, if he wants
to stay around
Florida and make
himself visible
while there's a
bounty on his
head, that's
certainly his
choice and likely
another bad choice
in a growing list.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center;background:white" align="center">
<hr size="2"
width="100%"
align="center"></div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white">CC: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com" target="_blank">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>;
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
From: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a><br>
Subject: Re:
[Vision2020]
Zimmy beams as
he tours gun
factory<br>
Date: Sat, 24
Aug 2013
18:30:05 -0700<br>
To: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white">I said it was closer to hunting than self
defense. It
was. And
Martin was a
kid; Zimmerman
was not. And
Martin is
dead. Maybe
that is why no
one is blaming
him. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white">Did Martin make a mistake? Apparently -- but
really we
don't know
that any more
than we know
why Zimmerman
did what he
did. But
Martin paid a
hefty price
for his
mistake.
Zimmerman did
not. That's
why folks are
upset.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><br>
On Aug 24,
2013, at 6:20
PM, Paul
Rumelhart <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"
target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><br>
That's the
narrative I'm
talking
about. It
completely
ignores
Trayvon
Martin's own
actions that
helped lead to
his death and
it exaggerates
George
Zimmerman's
actions.
Following
someone down a
sidewalk is
not the same
as "hunting" a
person. We
have exactly
zero evidence
that Zimmerman
followed
Martin in
order to kill
him. <br>
<br>
But have fun
with the
narrative. If
you happen
across
Zimmerman, get
in a few licks
for the rest
of us.<br>
<br>
Paul <br>
<br>
On 08/24/2013
05:44 PM, Joe
Campbell
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white">Goes against the narrative? The guy stalked a
kid, against
the advice of
a 911
operator, and
ended up
killing him. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white">Honestly, I just don't get it. Stalking and
shooting is a
lot closer to
hunting than
self-defense.
Why is that so
difficult for
you to see?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><br>
On Aug 24,
2013, at 5:11
PM, Paul
Rumelhart <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"
target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><br>
Well, he and
his family do
get death
threats
regularly: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://globalgrind.com/2013/08/03/robert-zimmerman-reveals-family-400-death-threats-per-minute-starbucks-employee-george-trayvon-martin-details/"
target="_blank">http://globalgrind.com/2013/08/03/robert-zimmerman-reveals-family-400-death-threats-per-minute-starbucks-employee-george-trayvon-martin-details/</a><br>
<br>
And there is a
$10,000 bounty
put on
Zimmerman for
his capture by
the New Black
Panther Party:
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/07/19/Black-Panthers-2012-video-for-Zimmerman-bounty-resurfaces/3711374236844/"
target="_blank">http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/07/19/Black-Panthers-2012-video-for-Zimmerman-bounty-resurfaces/3711374236844/</a><br>
<br>
So maybe he is
in need of a
good
home-defense
weapon.<br>
<br>
Of course,
progressives
are not
allowed to
feel bad about
that because
it goes
against the
narrative.
Pity, one
could almost
feel bad for a
guy who is
reviled on the
national stage
for protecting
himself from
getting his
ass beat,
whether or not
it was his own
stupidity that
got him
there. <br>
<br>
Oh, well.
It's much
easier to
think of him
as a monster.
<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 08/24/2013
03:29 PM,
Scott Dredge
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.mediaite.com/online/george-zimmerman-went-gun-shopping-today/"
target="_blank">http://www.mediaite.com/online/george-zimmerman-went-gun-shopping-today/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre style="background:white">=======================================================<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white"> List services made available by First Step Internet,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white"> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white"> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white"> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">=======================================================<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white">=======================================================<br>
List services
made available
by First Step
Internet,<br>
serving the
communities of
the Palouse
since 1994.<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
=======================================================<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
=======================================================<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
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