<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>What is it then? Which </div><div><br>On Aug 24, 2013, at 1:48 PM, lfalen <<a href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen@turbonet.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr" style=""><div>Nick</div><div>I don't think that any Libertarian wants to get rid of all government programs. Libertarian is not synonomus with Anarchist.</div><div>Roger<br><br><br><br><br></div><div style="padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(119, 119, 119); border-left-width: 3px; border-left-style: solid;">-----Original Message-----<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Are you REALLY a libertarian?<br>From: "Nicholas Gier" <ngier006@gmail.com><br>To: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter@yahoo.com><br>Date: 08/24/13 08:29:22<br><br><title></title>
<div dir="ltr">Hi Paul,<div><br></div>
<div>Do you really want to get rid of all federal programs? You are talking Tea Party when you claim to know what the Constitution means, just as fundamentalists claim to know what God's will is. </div>
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<div>Perhaps you have forgotten that for over 200 years the Supreme Court, not individuals with their own private interpretations, has determined the meaning of the Constitution, and so far, very few federal programs have been declared unconstitutional.</div>
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<div>Just recently "activist" conservatives on the Court ruled that corporations are persons, something that the founders certainly did not intend. Some much for the phony theory of "originalism." The Constitution is obviously a "living" document.</div>
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<div>Please clarify your own definition of libertarianism and how it differs from the Tea Party folks.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Nick</div> </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Paul Rumelhart <span dir="ltr"><<a href="index.html?_n%5Bp%5D%5Bmain%5D=win.main.tree&_n%5Bp%5D%5Bcontent%5D=mail.compose&to=godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;" class="gmail_quote">
<div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">In what way does Libertarianism "strip the people of the right to determine their own form of government and the society they wish to live in"? You still vote the same way, the rules of Congress are the same, etc. Libertarians are for reducing the size of government back to what is specified in the Constitution, leaving the rest to the states or the individual. Is that what you are referring to?<br><br>Paul<br><div><span><br></span></div>
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<div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1">
<font face="Arial"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Donovan Arnold <<a href="index.html?_n%5Bp%5D%5Bmain%5D=win.main.tree&_n%5Bp%5D%5Bcontent%5D=mail.compose&to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" target="_blank">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Joe Campbell <<a href="index.html?_n%5Bp%5D%5Bmain%5D=win.main.tree&_n%5Bp%5D%5Bcontent%5D=mail.compose&to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>>; Paul Rumelhart <<a href="index.html?_n%5Bp%5D%5Bmain%5D=win.main.tree&_n%5Bp%5D%5Bcontent%5D=mail.compose&to=godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>><br></font><div class="im"><font face="Arial"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Moscow Vision 2020 <<a href="index.html?_n%5Bp%5D%5Bmain%5D=win.main.tree&_n%5Bp%5D%5Bcontent%5D=mail.compose&to=vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br></font></div>
<font face="Arial"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, August 23, 2013 9:44 AM</font><div><div class="h5"><font face="Arial"><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Are you REALLY a libertarian?<br></font></div></div> </div>
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<br><div><div><div style="font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div> </div>
<div><span><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">My objection to Libertarianism is that it strips the people of the right to determine their own form of government and the society they wish to live in. <span> </span>It removes using the government as a means to solve a problem when it may at times be the best or least costly solution.</font></span></div>
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<div><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">Donovan J. Arnold</font></div>
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<div style="font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <div style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); line-height: 0; font-size: 0px; min-height: 0px;"></div>
<font face="Arial"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Joe Campbell <<a href="index.html?_n%5Bp%5D%5Bmain%5D=win.main.tree&_n%5Bp%5D%5Bcontent%5D=mail.compose&to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Paul Rumelhart <<a href="index.html?_n%5Bp%5D%5Bmain%5D=win.main.tree&_n%5Bp%5D%5Bcontent%5D=mail.compose&to=godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Moscow Vision 2020 <<a href="index.html?_n%5Bp%5D%5Bmain%5D=win.main.tree&_n%5Bp%5D%5Bcontent%5D=mail.compose&to=vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, August 22, 2013 7:07 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Are you REALLY a libertarian?<br></font> </div>
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<div>My opposition to libertarianism stems from my adherence to social contract theory. We agree to uphold the laws of a particular society in exchange for security. And vice versa: no security, no adherence to the law. </div>
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<div>Social programs are justified from a purely pragmatic point of view. Thus, libertarianism is false.</div>
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<br>On Aug 22, 2013, at 8:47 AM, Paul Rumelhart <<a href="index.html?_n%5Bp%5D%5Bmain%5D=win.main.tree&_n%5Bp%5D%5Bcontent%5D=mail.compose&to=godshatter@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br> </div>
<blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">I agree with this. Let's keep the brand name clean, so it doesn't get taken over like the original Tea Party did.<br><br>I do see a lot of pushback to Libertarianism by both Democrats and Republicans, which makes me think they're on the right track.<br><br>Paul<br><div><span><br></span></div>
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<div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <div style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); line-height: 0; font-size: 0px; min-height: 0px;"></div>
<font face="Arial"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Joe Campbell <<a href="index.html?_n%5Bp%5D%5Bmain%5D=win.main.tree&_n%5Bp%5D%5Bcontent%5D=mail.compose&to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Moscow Vision 2020 <<a href="index.html?_n%5Bp%5D%5Bmain%5D=win.main.tree&_n%5Bp%5D%5Bcontent%5D=mail.compose&to=vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:19 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Vision2020] Are you REALLY a libertarian?<br></font> </div>
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<br><div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/08/30/773243/-Top-10-Signs-You-Might-Not-Be-A-Libertarian?detail=facebook#" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/08/30/773243/-Top-10-Signs-You-Might-Not-Be-A-Libertarian?detail=facebook#</a><br> </div></div>
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