<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>You're correct Joe. Someone may want citizenship but won't apply (not aware or lacks resources) or maybe doesn't have the avenue to apply (here illegally maybe).</div><div><br></div><div>I hang with all sorts if various and sundry characters and I've heard all sorts of excuses for not applying for citizenship from a few. Some of the comments have been 'I'VE LIVED HERE LONG ENOUGH, I DON'T THINK I SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO TAKE A TEST' and 'THE CLOSEST IMMIGRATION OFFICE IS IN SEATTLE AND THAT'S 4 HOURS AWAY' and 'I DON'T WANT TO BE SUBPOENAED TO SIT ON A JURY'. I don't even know if the last one is accurate. Can you shirk jury duty if you're a non citizen?</div><div><br></div><div>Anyway IMO when there is process already in place, you should follow the process. I think Wayne's point is that for those in the United States illegally, they should go back to their home country or else be forcibly removed per the current process (law). I don't agree with position which I'm sure makes me a hypocrite for calling for other laws to be enforced but not deportation laws except under certain instances where enforcing them 'makes sense' to me. Subjective, I know, but that topic is for another discussion.</div><div><br></div><div>So the question I'd have is 'do illegals residing in the US presently have a have a path to become legal residents?' If not, I thin that's the first problem to solve. Give them a path to Green Card. Or if that's too much (and Greed Cards are tantamount to Nirvana), then they should be offered a path to Blue Card which can be continued on the Green Card. </div><div><br></div><div>Does this seem fair enough?<br><br>-Scott</div><div><br>On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:19 AM, "Joe Campbell" <<a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div>Scott,</div><div><br></div><div>Application rate is not a good measure. There might be reasons -- fear of deportation -- for why illegals won't apply that are independent of not wanting citizenship.</div><div><br></div><div>If we did things like we used to do -- when your relatives came and my relatives came -- more illegals would be legals. What's a boat ride to NY compared with what they now suffer?</div><div><br>On Aug 21, 2013, at 9:58 AM, Scott Dredge <<a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<div dir="ltr">First of all, there has been on talk I hope of just 'giving illegals citizenship'. Even Tom specifically wrote that he wants a 'path to citizenship' offered for illegals. A common path for non-citizens to follow presently is to first obtain a Green Card.<br><br>As for your question of 'what supports your claim that illegals don't want citizenship?', the answer is due in part that even legals don't want citizenship. The naturalization rate of LEGAL immigrants from Mexico who are eligible to become citizens is only 36% which is a rate that is half that of legal immigrants from all other countries combined.<br><br>You can read more about 'the path not taken' at:<br><br><a href="http://www.pewhispanic.org/2013/02/04/the-path-not-taken/">http://www.pewhispanic.org/2013/02/04/the-path-not-taken/</a><br><br>I am in favor of a path for illegals to first become 'documented' and put on a path toward Green Card and citizenship, but if they choose for any reason to not to file for any such documentation, then that would be their choice alone to remain 'undocumented'. And if they choose to become 'documented', but to not to follow the path to citizenship, then that would again be their choice. It's like abortion. Women should be offered that choice, but not have it forced upon them against their will.<br><br>-Scott<br><br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 07:45:14 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Immigration Reform: Path to citizenship won't be easy<br>From: <a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a><br>CC: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br><br><div dir="ltr">Why do you say they don't want it? If they don't want citizenship, then it is a non-issue. Give it too them, and they'll just give it back. What is the harm? My guess is that a lot of illegals would file for citizenship but they are afraid of being arrested if they try. Maybe I'm wrong about that but what supports your claim that illegals don't want citizenship?<br>
</div><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Scott Dredge <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com" target="_blank">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div><div dir="ltr">The Path to Citizenship doesn't address the root of the problem which is how do you force citizenship on people who don't want it? It's almost as difficult as trying force democracy on the Iraqis.<br>
<br><a href="http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20130527/immigration-reform-path-to-citizenship-wont-be-easy" target="_blank">http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20130527/immigration-reform-path-to-citizenship-wont-be-easy</a><br>
<br>"It's certainly not a bill that we would have written ourselves,'' said
Laura Vazquez, a legislative analyst at the National Council of La Raza,
who nevertheless said it "makes significant improvements to our broken
immigration system. "<br><br>"The ultimate goal of the legislation we believe is to get as many
people to move from undocumented status into a path to citizenship,''
Vazquez said. "That has to be met by having a process that is real and
accessible.''<br><br><br> </div></div>
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