<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Rand Paul is no different than the other candidates as far as I can tell. I don't see any reason to think he'd have done better than Obama. Are you going to support a counter argument with his statements? That's why we elected Obama in the first place.</div><div><br>On Aug 17, 2013, at 11:15 AM, Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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I don't get this idea that if the Democrat isn't that great, you
can only look at the Republican candidate (and vice versa) and
then try to choose the one that will screw us over less.<br>
<br>
There are other candidates out there. I'd rather vote FOR someone
than AGAINST someone else. I made this mistake two elections
ago. I voted for Obama because he billed himself as nega-Bush,
the antithesis of George W. Bush. When it turned out he was just
Bush 2.0, I started looking for someone I could vote for that I
could live with if they were elected. I chose Gary Johnson the
second time around. There are a surprising number of third party
candidates out there to choose from. They have to use the system
designed by the Republicrats, which is a major hurdle for them,
but things can change if we just recognize that blind party
affiliation is wrecking this country.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 08/17/2013 09:13 AM, Tom Hansen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:E2D71264-76D8-4A5C-8EAB-5F87FB6C005E@moscow.com" type="cite">
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charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div>So, you are suggesting . . .</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Instead of voting for Biden or Clinton, someone that may go
through our sock drawers, we should vote for Rand Paul (or
whoever becomes the GOP presidential candidate), someone that
will ensure that we cannot afford socks.<br>
<br>
<div>Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants
on)</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.MoscowCares.com">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>Tom Hansen</div>
<div>Moscow, Idaho</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"<span style="font-size: medium;
-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969);
-webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128,
180, 0.230469); ">There's room at the top they are telling
you still</span><span style="font-size: medium;
-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969);
-webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128,
180, 0.230469); "> </span></div>
<span style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color:
rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color:
rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
-webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469); ">But first you must learn how to smile as you
kill </span><br style="font-size: medium;
-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
-webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128,
180, 0.230469); ">
<span style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color:
rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color:
rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
-webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469); ">If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span></div>
<div><font size="3"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color:
rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969);
-webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128,
180, 0.230469);"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font size="3"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color:
rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969);
-webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128,
180, 0.230469);">- John Lennon<br>
</span></font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Aug 17, 2013, at 9:06 AM, Sunil Ramalingam <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div dir="ltr">My suggestion, for people who call themselves
'Progressives' or 'Liberals' or who oppose what both Bush
and Obama, indeed both parties are doing, is to stop voting
for politicians who support these measures. For the next
election, certainly this includes both Biden and H. Clinton.
Stop buying into the rationalization that we have to vote
for them for the sake of Supreme Court nominees, or whatever
else is thrown at us. Vote for one of the small parties.
Maybe when the Ds see that they can't count on our support
while they support and carry out these policies, they will
start to change. Right now there is no pressure to change,
only to continue what Bush (and with Rendition, Clinton)
started or continued.<br>
<br>
Or come to terms with your support of empire, Wall Street
bailouts, illegal spying, the murder of citizens and
non-citizens with drones, secret bombings etc. Votes for
Obama, Biden, H. Clinton certainly means support for all
those policies. <br>
<br>
Please demonstrate for me, if you can, that I'm wrong. I
don't think you can, since it's quite clear the politicians
I named above (along with most Republicans, though some
would not support the Wall Street bailouts) all support
those policies.<br>
<br>
Sunil<br>
<br>
<div>
<hr id="stopSpelling">CC: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:moscowcares@moscow.com">moscowcares@moscow.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GPS Tracking and Secret Policies<br>
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 08:38:04 -0700<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a><br>
<br>
<div>And your suggestion is . . . ?<br>
<br>
<div>Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your
pants on)</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.MoscowCares.com" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>Tom Hansen</div>
<div>Moscow, Idaho</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"<span style="font-size:medium;">There's room at
the top they are telling you still</span><span style="font-size:medium;"> </span></div>
<span style="font-size:medium;">But first you must
learn how to smile as you kill </span><br style="font-size:medium;">
<span style="font-size:medium;">If you want to be like
the folks on the hill."</span></div>
<div><font size="3"><span style=""><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font size="3"><span style="">- John Lennon<br>
</span></font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Aug 17, 2013, at 8:34 AM, Sunil Ramalingam <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
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<div dir="ltr">Only if we are partisan and blind to
the consequences of his actions. <br>
<br>
He has normalized torture, rendition, illegal
killing of citizens...<br>
<br>
We can't do better than this?<br>
<br>
Sunil<br>
<br>
<div>
<hr id="ecxstopSpelling">CC: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GPS Tracking and Secret
Policies<br>
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 08:33:41 -0700<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a><br>
<br>
<div>As much as I partially agree with you, Sunil
. . .</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>He is still the best game in town.</div>
<div><br>
<div>Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have
with your pants on)</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.MoscowCares.com" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>Tom Hansen</div>
<div>Moscow, Idaho</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"<span style="font-size:medium;">There's
room at the top they are telling you still</span><span style="font-size:medium;"> </span></div>
<span style="font-size:medium;">But first you
must learn how to smile as you kill </span><br style="font-size:medium;">
<span style="font-size:medium;">If you want to
be like the folks on the hill."</span></div>
<div><font size="3"><span style=""><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font size="3"><span style="">- John Lennon<br>
</span></font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Aug 17, 2013, at 8:16 AM, Sunil Ramalingam
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
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<div dir="ltr">Obama promised the most
transparent administration ever, but has
instead gone after leaks and whistleblowers
with more prosecutions than any - or is it
all put together - previous administrations.
He's against leaks except when it suits him
politically; then leaks are okay.<br>
<br>
Sunil<br>
<br>
<div>
<hr id="ecxstopSpelling">Date: Sat, 17 Aug
2013 07:50:57 -0400<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Subject: [Vision2020] GPS Tracking and
Secret Policies<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.nytimes.com/" target="_blank"><img moz-do-not-send="true" src="http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/misc/nytlogo153x23.gif" alt="The New York Times" border="0" hspace="0" vspace="0" align="left"></a> </div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<hr size="1" align="left">
<div>August 16, 2013</div>
<h1>GPS Tracking and Secret Policies</h1>
<h6>By <span>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/opinion/editorialboard.html" rel="author" title="More Articles
by THE EDITORIAL BOARD" target="_blank"><span>THE
EDITORIAL BOARD</span></a></span></h6>
<div id="ecxarticleBody"> This week
brought fresh revelations about the
National Security Agency’s sloppy and
invasive collection of phone data on
Americans and others, as reported
first by The Washington Post. In
another realm of surveillance — the
government’s broad use of location
tracking devices — the Justice
Department was in federal court on
Thursday defending its refusal to
release memos containing information
about its policies governing the use
of GPS and other potentially invasive
technologies. <br>
The American Civil Liberties Union had
brought the lawsuit to demand that the
department make the memos public. The
documents were prepared after a 2012
Supreme Court ruling, United States v.
Jones, which held that placement of a
hidden tracking device on a suspect’s
car constitutes a “search” under the
Fourth Amendment. <br>
That case left lots of questions
unanswered, including whether GPS
tracking always requires a warrant
based on probable cause, and how the
Fourth Amendment applies to tracking
someone 24/7 with cellphone location
technology. After the decision was
released, the F.B.I.’s general
counsel, Andrew Weissmann, mentioned
in a public talk that the government
was issuing memos containing official
guidance for federal agents and
prosecutors on when they can use
tracking technology and how the Jones
decision applies to other types of
techniques, beyond GPS. <br>
The public has a right to know the
government’s policies on these
matters. There is very good reason to
be concerned about the government’s
interpretation of its police powers,
especially given the Obama
administration’s insensitivity to
privacy in its mass collection of
phone data in the national security
sphere. <br>
When the A.C.L.U. filed a request for
the memos under the Freedom of
Information Act, the Justice
Department responded by handing over
copies with the text nearly entirely
blanked out, prompting the lawsuit.
The Justice Department claims that the
memos were prepared anticipating
litigation and are exempt from
disclosure because they are a lawyer’s
work product. But to the extent Mr.
Weissmann accurately represented the
memos, they also amount to statements
of official policy, not merely
exchanges by lawyers on legal
theories, which the work-product
exception is meant to protect. <br>
Our strong hunch is that there is
material in the memos that can and
should be revealed without harm to law
enforcement or the appropriate
discussion of confidential legal
strategies. At Thursday’s hearing,
Judge William Pauley III said he would
personally review the documents before
deciding whether they should be
released. <br>
It is distressing that the
administration, which claims to
welcome a debate over the government’s
surveillance practices, time and again
refuses to be transparent about those
practices. Instead of awaiting a court
order, the administration should
release the tracking memos on its own.
<br>
<br clear="all">
</div>
<br>
-- <br>
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com" target="_blank">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
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