<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:Calibri
}
--></style></head>
<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>If the goal is to save money, then I agree that having fewer folks in prison would save more. But then there is cost of having people roaming free stealing property and / or causing property damage that would also need to be factored in to the equation. In a perfect state, the bare minimum number of folks would be incarcerated and upon release would be rehabilitated. Fat chance of that happening.<br><br>I don't have any evidence that privatizing prisons saves tax dollars. Tom correctly stated that I still don't get his point. This was mainly because he was unable to clearly articulate it.<br><br>Saundra, as for your statement of '<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">[prison privatization being]
just a way to transfer taxpayer dollars to the private sector where
there’s less accountability and higher per inmate costs – which
translates to corporate profits – and lower wages & decreased
quality of corrections professionals.',</span> this wouldn't surprise me one bit especially with Republicans in charge.<br><br>-Scott<br><br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">CC: scooterd408@hotmail.com; thansen@moscow.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br>From: philosopher.joe@gmail.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [corrected] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . .<br>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 19:26:23 -0700<br>To: v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm<br><br><div>Even if privatization saves money having fewer folks in prison would save even more. So it is a mute point.</div><div><br>On Aug 13, 2013, at 6:05 PM, "Saundra Lund" <<a href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm">v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote><div><style><!--
.ExternalClass .ecxshape {
}
--></style><style><!--
.ExternalClass p.ecxMsoNormal, .ExternalClass li.ecxMsoNormal, .ExternalClass div.ecxMsoNormal {
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
}
.ExternalClass a:link, .ExternalClass span.ecxMsoHyperlink {
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
}
.ExternalClass span.ecxMsoHyperlinkFollowed {
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;
}
.ExternalClass p.ecxMsoPlainText, .ExternalClass li.ecxMsoPlainText, .ExternalClass div.ecxMsoPlainText {
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
}
.ExternalClass p {
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
}
.ExternalClass span.ecxEmailStyle18 {
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;
}
.ExternalClass span.ecxPlainTextChar {
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
}
.ExternalClass .ecxMsoChpDefault {
font-size:10.0pt;
}
.ExternalClass div.ecxWordSection1 {
}
--></style><div class="ecxWordSection1"><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Jumping in just to address this part of the conversation, but the “theory” that privatization of prisons saves taxpayer money is just that: an unproven theory. If you have any evidence that the theory has been proven to be accurate in anything other than isolated (and perhaps questionable) instances, please share. This is a topic I try to keep abreast of, and I’m not aware of validation of that “cost saving” privatization theory. Indeed, what seems to be the case is that when comparing apples to apples, private prisons do NOT seem to save money – rather, it’s just a way to transfer taxpayer dollars to the private sector where there’s less accountability and higher per inmate costs – which translates to corporate profits – and lower wages & decreased quality of corrections professionals.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">There have been lots of articles about the issue – here are some I’m familiar with:</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"><a href="http://sacurrent.com/news/do-private-prisons-save-money-1.1198789" target="_blank">http://sacurrent.com/news/do-private-prisons-save-money-1.1198789</a></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"><a href="http://tucsoncitizen.com/mark-evans/archives/732" target="_blank">http://tucsoncitizen.com/mark-evans/archives/732</a></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/19/us/19prisons.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/19/us/19prisons.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0</a></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">And, of course, there’s the whole CCA debacle right here in Idaho, which has received extensive coverage over the last couple of years. Regrettably, I don’t have the links handy . . . wait! Here’s something I started writing up a month or so ago before the more recent revelations (Idaho dumping CCA, CCA facing contempt charges, etc.) – please forgive the incomplete state of it, but it does have some of the links:</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="">For a very brief recap, first the fiscally irresponsible dumbos decided privatization by getting into bed with the devil in the form of for-profit CCA (Corrections Corporation of America) to service ICC (Idaho Corrections Center) was a good idea.</p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style=""> </p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="">Predictably, CCA quickly showed itself for the devil anyone with connected brain cells already knew it to be:</p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style=""><<a href="http://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/aclu-lawsuit-charges-idaho-prison-officials-promote-rampant-violence" target="_blank">http://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/aclu-lawsuit-charges-idaho-prison-officials-promote-rampant-violence</a>></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="">OR</p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style=""><a href="http://tinyurl.com/ACLU-ICC-CCA" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/ACLU-ICC-CCA</a></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style=""> </p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="">Then -- shock of all shocks -- it turns out privatization doesn't really save money when comparing apples to apples, as has been shown time & time again but it *does* erode quality and the middle class, yet Idaho's dunces stick their fingers in their ears while singing "lalalala" like the petulant three-year-olds they've consistently shown themselves to be:</p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style=""><a href="http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/boise/2012/mar/05/ap-private-prisons-may-be-costing-idaho-more-state-hasnt-checked/" target="_blank">http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/boise/2012/mar/05/ap-private-prisons-may-be-costing-idaho-more-state-hasnt-checked/</a></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="">OR</p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style=""><a href="http://tinyurl.com/oq3gydt" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/oq3gydt</a></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style=""> </p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="">AND</p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style=""><a href="http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/boise/2012/mar/05/prison-budget-set-includes-3-increase-private-prison-firm-cca/" target="_blank">http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/boise/2012/mar/05/prison-budget-set-includes-3-increase-private-prison-firm-cca/</a></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="">OR</p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style=""><a href="http://tinyurl.com/q33z65j" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/q33z65j</a></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style=""> </p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="">Do be sure to note that those Boise GOP & tea bagger fiscal hawks (ROTFLMAO) decided to reward CCA's repeated & serious contract NON-compliance with nearly a $1 million increase. Too funny.</p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style=""> </p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="">Flash forward to April, when -- in another shocking (NOT) development -- when CCA admitted to falsifying THOUSANDS of hours of staffing records at ICC:</p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style=""><a href="http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/ICC-CCA-false-Staff-records-Idaho-Prison-202588231.html" target="_blank">http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/ICC-CCA-false-Staff-records-Idaho-Prison-202588231.html</a></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">HTH,</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Saundra</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Moscow, ID</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">I distrust those who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">~ Susan B. Anthony</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";"> <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a> [<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott Dredge<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 13, 2013 5:10 PM<br><b>To:</b> Tom Hansen<br><b>Cc:</b> viz<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] [corrected] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . .</span></p></div></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">OK. So there is a taxpayer cost for every prisoner housed by a private prison. And presumably there is a taxpayer savings from every one of those prisoners not being housed in a state run prison. If so, it would make sense to migrate prisoners from the state run facility over to the privatized one. If the privatized facilities subsequently jack up their rates such that it would be lower cost to move them back to the state run facility, then such action should take place. Stretching out tax dollars would allow any savings to be plowed into other government sanctioned projects.</span></p><div><div class="ecxMsoNormal" style="text-align:center;" align="center"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><hr id="ecxstopSpelling" align="center" size="2" width="100%"></span></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">CC: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>From: <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [corrected] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . .<br>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 16:34:05 -0700<br>To: <a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a></span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">One more time, Mr. Dredge . . .</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Privatized prison companies "donate" heavily to election campaigns of those that may provide benefit to the privatized prison companies once they (the candidate to whom they [the privatized prison company] contributed $) are elected into office (say . . . perhaps a state governor's office).</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Upon assuming office, the elected official pushes for a privatized state prison system, to be managed/operated by the private company that donated $ to the elected official's campaign.</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Once the privte prison company is contracted by that state to house convicted defendants sentenced to a term in prison, that company is paid on a per-prisoner basis.</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">The more prisoners, the bigger the payment from the state (pronounced "tax payers").</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Ok?</span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Tom Hansen</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Moscow, Idaho</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">"</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">There's room at the top they are telling you still </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">But first you must learn how to smile as you kill <br>If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">- John Lennon</span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><br>On Aug 13, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Scott Dredge <<a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></p></div><blockquote style=""><div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><NOW do ya get it?><br>No. What difference does it make whether criminals do their time in state run prisons or privatized prisons?</span></p><div><div class="ecxMsoNormal" style="text-align:center;" align="center"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><hr id="ecxstopSpelling" align="center" size="2" width="100%"></span></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">CC: <a href="mailto:moscowcares@moscow.com">moscowcares@moscow.com</a>; <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>From: <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [corrected] It's Time for an Honest Conversation About Marijuana . . .<br>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 15:30:50 -0700<br>To: <a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a></span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Mr. Dredge lamely suggests:</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">"Privatized prison system are not the cause of why many defendants are convicted of minor crimes. That's a ridiculous notion."</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Perhaps I was expecting too much from you, Mr. Dredge. </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">The intent of my suggestion was to reflect on the incarceration of those convicted of minor offenses . . . incarcerated in privatized prison systems . . . privatized prison systems being marketed by lobbies . . . and adopted by state governments . . . like Idaho.</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">NOW do ya get it?</span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Tom Hansen</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Moscow, Idaho</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">"</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">There's room at the top they are telling you still </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">But first you must learn how to smile as you kill <br>If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">- John Lennon</span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><br>On Aug 13, 2013, at 3:02 PM, Scott Dredge <<a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></p></div><blockquote style=""><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Privatized prison system are not the cause of why many defendants are convicted of minor crimes. That's a ridiculous notion.</span></p></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote><div><span>=======================================================</span><br><span> List services made available by First Step Internet,</span><br><span> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a></span><br><span> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br><span>=======================================================</span></div></blockquote></div> </div></body>
</html>