<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:Calibri
}
--></style></head>
<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'><But I'm still not sure that he broke any laws.><br>I'm not sure
either Joe. Doesn't seem like it. Sunil - the guy who claimed he
didn't follow the case all the closely - was the one whose comments
resonated most with me. Zimmerman shouldn't have followed Martin, he
didn't listen to the dispatcher, and he shouldn't have gotten out of his
truck. And while none of that was illegal, it was a sequence of events
that put him in a situation where in Zimmerman's own *worthless
opinion* he supposedly feared getting shot with own his gun.<br><br>Sunil's
other comment regarding something to the effect of 'anyone pretending
that race doesn't affect the criminal justice system is full of crap'
was the other thing that struck a major chord with me.<br><br>What would
the verdict have been had Zimmerman's jury had been comprised of 6
black females all of whom had children themselves? I don't intend this
to be disrespectful. Statistically I believe he would have been found
guilty of 2nd degree murder - even though I can't readily point to any
data to back up this belief. It's just my sense that they would have
connected more with Trayvon Martin and have a mindset that Trayvon didn't do
anything wrong to deserve being shot through the
heart. Ergo, the killer was absolutely at fault.<br><br>Listening to
Juror 37B tell her side of the story on Anderson Cooper 360, the one
thing that really disgusted me about her comments the most was that she
repeatedly referred to the defendant as 'George'. I don't think George
intended to do this. I don't think George intended to do that. I think
George learned a very valuable lesson that night. Blah, blah, blah.
George was just a good ole boy who she was on a first name basis with. I felt it would have been more appropriate for her to refer to the defendant as 'The Defendent' or at worst 'Mr. Zimmerman'. Instead, she came off to me as
completely identifying with her good buddy George...a fine young man, if
you will.<br><br>And for the trifecta, Sunil also made a comment which I
interpreted to be that those who strongly support (and I suppose also those who strongly don't support) 2nd amendment rights
brought their own blind bias into the mix. Zimmerman is
revered by gun loving conservatives and reviled by gun hating liberals. With all the dynamics
of race, gun rights, a long history of racial injustice, completely
botched media reporting, a preexisting distrust of the Sanford
police department by the black community, yada, yada, yada, it's brutally difficult to cut through
all the bullshit and get straight down to the cold hard verifiable and corroborating facts of the events
of that night that resulted in this unnecessary tragedy. So many
'what ifs' and yet we're all stuck with 'what was'.<br><br>-Scott<br><br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 21:37:45 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmerman/Martin (was: "Global Warming: The North Pole is now a lake")<br>From: philosopher.joe@gmail.com<br>To: scooterd408@hotmail.com<br>CC: thansen@moscow.com; bear@moscow.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br><br><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>OMG. If the criteria for being suspicious is cutting between houses during the rain, that is even worse than any kind of racism. I'm sure you're going to find a lot of 17-year-olds who would be suspects under those conditions -- and some 50-year-olds, as well. Anyway, thanks for the clarifications Scott and Wayne! I do think getting the facts right is helpful.<br>
<br></div>The more I know about this case the more irresponsible Zimmerman seems to be. But I'm still not sure that he broke any laws. So much the worse for the laws, IMO.<br><br></div>For the record, I don't think that Zimmerman was racist for the simple reason that I know NOTHING about him. I have a hard time believing that Martin's hoodie didn't play a role, so there is a racist element there. And the investigation had racist overtones, IMO, that benefited Zimmerman.<br>
<br></div><div>Perhaps we can move to way of talking about these issues where, instead of calling any particular person "racist," we could honestly talk about how race played a role in the Zimmerman/Martin tragedy -- played a role in Martin's being deemed a suspect, and in the investigation. That strikes me as an honest assessment. Maybe talking this way will help us to sooner get to the point where it doesn't play a role in situations like this in the future.<br>
</div></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Scott Dredge <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com" target="_blank">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div><div dir="ltr">George Zimmerman answered it. It doesn't mean anything. He had time to concoct whatever story he wished, if you want to assume that he was not being truthful with this answer. He also wasn't under oath, not that it would be an iron clad fail safe for truth telling even if he were.<br>
<br>Anyway your question is: 'What was it about Trayvon Martin that made George Zimmerman think of him
(Martin) as one of those "fucking punks that always gets away"?'<br><br>Zimm's response to the question is: 'I felt he was suspicious because it was raining. He was in-between
houses, cutting in-between houses, and he was walking very leisurely for
the weather. ... It didn't look like he was a resident that went to
check their mail and got caught in the rain and was hurrying back home.
He didn't look like a fitness fanatic that would train in the rain.'<br><br>So the question is answered, it's just his word against your own version of what you think his thoughts were that night.<br><br><br>
<div><hr>From: <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" target="_blank">thansen@moscow.com</a><br>Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 17:32:36 -0700<br>To: <a href="mailto:bear@moscow.com" target="_blank">bear@moscow.com</a><br>CC: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmerman/Martin (was: "Global Warming: The North Pole is now a lake")<div><div class="h5"><br><br><div>Yet, the question remains . . . unanswered.<br><br><div>Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .</div>
<div><br></div><div>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)</div><div><a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></div><div> </div><div><div>Tom Hansen</div>
<div>Moscow, Idaho</div><div><br></div><div>"<span style="font-size:medium;">There's room at the top they are telling you still</span><span style="font-size:medium;"> </span></div><span style="font-size:medium;">But first you must learn how to smile as you kill </span><br style="font-size:medium;">
<span style="font-size:medium;">If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span></div><div><font size="3"><span><br></span></font></div><div><font size="3"><span>- John Lennon<br></span></font><div> </div></div><div>
<br></div></div><div><br>On Jul 25, 2013, at 5:17 PM, Wayne Price <<a href="mailto:bear@moscow.com" target="_blank">bear@moscow.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote><div>I know that facts rarely get into this discussion, but for the record: <span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:16px;">No actually the neighborhood Trayon was in while visiting his father truly belong to his father's girlfriend. Trayvon is from the urban portion of Miami. </span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:16px;">Martin was there with this father, at the invitation of his father's girlfriend. He had ever right to be there. Zimmerman did live there. Both had every legal right to be there. </span><div>
<font color="#333333" face="arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13px;line-height:16px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#333333" face="arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13px;line-height:16px;">Wayne<br>
</span></font><div><font color="#333333" face="arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13px;line-height:16px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#333333" face="arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13px;line-height:16px;"><br>
</span></font></div><div><font color="#333333" face="arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13px;line-height:16px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#333333" face="arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13px;line-height:16px;"><br>
</span></font></div><div><font color="#333333" face="arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13px;line-height:16px;"><br></span></font><div><div>On Jul 25, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:</div><br><blockquote>
<div dir="auto"><div>Quick simplequestion . . . </div><div><br></div><div>What was it about Trayvon Martin that made George Zimmerman think of him (Martin) as one of those "fucking punks that always gets away"?</div>
<div><br></div><div>And don't tell me that he (Martin) was peeking into local houses. <font color="#ff0000">Trayvon Martin lives in the immediate neighborhood</font>, FOR CHRIST's SAKE! I don't buy that "<span>peeking into local houses" crap that Zimmerman was hyping.</span><br>
<br><div>Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .</div><div><br></div><div>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)</div><div><a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com/" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></div>
<div> </div><div><div>Tom Hansen</div><div>Moscow, Idaho</div><div><br></div><div>"<span style="font-size:medium;">There's room at the top they are telling you still</span><span style="font-size:medium;"> </span></div>
<span style="font-size:medium;">But first you must learn how to smile as you kill </span><br style="font-size:medium;"><span style="font-size:medium;">If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span></div><div><font size="3"><span><br>
</span></font></div><div><font size="3"><span>- John Lennon<br></span></font><div> </div></div><div><br></div></div><div><br>On Jul 25, 2013, at 3:34 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br></div><blockquote><div><div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;">In the Zimmerman case, there are two basic stories. Zimmerman contends that he was attacked by Martin and forced to defend himself when Martin saw his gun. There is evidence to support their altercation: Zimmerman's broken nose and lacerated head, blood on Martin's fist, water on Zimmerman's back and legs.<br>
<br>The other story is that Zimmerman stalked Martin, and gunned him down. How did Zimmerman get his injuries if that was the case? Did he attack Martin first? Why does Martin have no other injuries? Did they fight for the gun? Is there any evidence for that? Etc. Yet everyone assumes this to be true because Zimmerman is white and Martin is black (while at the same time calling Zimmerman out for being a racist).<br>
<br>I don't know how dire the threat was to Zimmerman's
life. But since every indication I've come across indicates that Martin attacked Zimmerman, then it doesn't really matter to me. If you attack someone, one of the things that might happen is that they might be armed and try to defend themselves. Trying to draw an exact line blow-by-blow in the fight seems counterproductive to me. If someone is actively beating on you, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think your life might be in danger or you might get grievously injured if the fight continued. Plus there's the "you're going to die tonight" thing that may or may not have happened. It's tragic, but I can't lay this one down at Zimmerman's feet like everyone here, the media, and even the President want me to do. Martin is just as responsible for his own death. They both could have avoided this.<br>
<br>Anyway, I thought we were discussing climate change and attempts to moderate it. I have no
wish to slog through the crap that is the Martin/Zimmerman debate any more. You can all have fun denigrating Zimmerman on your own. Fuck Zimmerman! Woohoo!<br><br>Paul<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt;">
<div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Joe Campbell <<a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> <br><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Cc:</span></b> Kenneth Marcy <<a href="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com" target="_blank">kmmos1@frontier.com</a>>; viz <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 25, 2013 3:10 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Global
Warming: The North Pole is now a lake.<br> </font> </div> <div><br><div><div><div>But you supported Zimmerman. He did something drastic precisely because he felt a threat. There it didn't matter much if the treat was real -- you never gave objective data about a treat; nor did you seem to care. His feeling of being threatened was enough to justify his excessive actions.</div>
<div><br>On Jul 25, 2013, at 2:19 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote><div><div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;">
There are certain generic precautions that could be taken, such as making sure the door is locked and the outside lights are on, etc. This would be equivalent to beefing up our
readiness levels for natural disasters and making sure we have food stored and so forth. It's helpful anyway.<br><br>Before I did anything drastic, though, I would want knowledge that there actually is a guy out there with a gun before I did anything drastic. Action for the sake of action can be just as dangerous as inaction. The guy-with-a-gun equivalent would be shooting at a target without knowing if that target is a threat. The global-warming equivalent would be imposing a drastic carbon-trading scheme (for example) that cripples our economy, after which we find out it was really just a 100-year-long blip in the data after
all.<br><br>Paul<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt;"> <div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Joe Campbell <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> Paul Rumelhart <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> <br><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Cc:</span></b> Kenneth Marcy <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com" target="_blank">kmmos1@frontier.com</a>>; viz <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 25, 2013 2:10 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Global Warming: The North Pole is now a lake.<br> </font> </div>
<div><br><div><div><div>Suppose you think you see a man outside
with a gun. Half the folks think it is a man with a fun, the other half have no idea what it is. What do you do? Does the fact that IF you are correct, your life might be in danger figure into the decision? In other words, if the risk of not believing is great, wouldn't you want to err on the side of caution given that half the folks think there is danger?</div>
<div><br>On Jul 25, 2013, at 11:39 AM, Paul Rumelhart <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote><div><div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;">
Every year ice melts on large stretches of the ice cap where it cannot drain into the ocean. It forms ponds, puddles, lakes, whatever you want to call them. This happens at the North Pole as well as at other locations on the ice
pack. This is one of the reasons determining sea ice area is difficult. It's hard to tell ocean water from water-on-top-of-the-ice sometimes. Currently, both the sea ice extent and sea ice area numbers are higher than they were last year and higher than they were in 2011 or 2007. Here is a nice place where a lot of the charts are linked to from the same source: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference-pages/sea-ice-page/" target="_blank">http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference-pages/sea-ice-page/</a> I must warn you that Ted hates this website, but since it's a bunch of links to data from official sciency-type places, I think it's OK to start
there.<br><br>I tend to watch the NORSEX SSM/I extent and area charts, since those are the charts I've been following for a few years now. There are also lots of other interesting graphs, as well as the webcam images from the north pole used in the article. If you go there and look at the two web cams right now, you'll see that only one looks like it's in a lake. The other one looks to be safely on solid ice/snow pack.<br>
<br>I don't say this out of some sort of effort to promote climate denialism in an attempt to wreak havoc on the framework of American Life and to lead your kids to rock music, I say it to stem the "OMG! The North Pole is a lake! We're all dooooomed!" hysteria. I have no idea how this year will turn out in terms of minimum extent or area compared to previous years, but I'd rather look at the pretty graphs than take all my information from a webcam
image.<br><br>Paul<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt;"> <div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Kenneth Marcy <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com" target="_blank">kmmos1@frontier.com</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> viz <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:37 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Vision2020] Global Warming: The North Pole is now a lake.<br> </font> </div> <div>
<br><div>
<div>
If ever there was any doubt in your mind about global warming,
consider this news:<br>
<div>The North Pole, that great bastion of eternal cold and barren
ice, is a lake.</div>
<div>It’s a shallow lake. It’s a cold lake. But it is, actually, a
lake.</div>
<div>According to the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/index.html" target="_blank">North
Pole Environmental Observatory</a>, the summer ice is melting
away at unprecedented rates. The sea of snow is now meltwater.<br>
</div>
<br>
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://o.canada.com/2013/07/24/the-north-pole-is-now-a-lake/" target="_blank">http://o.canada.com/2013/07/24/the-north-pole-is-now-a-lake/</a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Ken
</div>
</div><br>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
mailto:<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================<br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></blockquote>
<blockquote><div><span>=======================================================</span><br><span> List services made available by First Step Internet,</span><br><span> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</span><br>
<span> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a></span><br><span> <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br>
<span>=======================================================</span></div></blockquote></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></blockquote></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></blockquote>
<blockquote><div><span>=======================================================</span><br><span> List services made available by First Step Internet,</span><br><span> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</span><br>
<span> <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a></span><br><span> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br><span>=======================================================</span></div>
</blockquote></div>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></blockquote><br>=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a>
mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
=======================================================</div></div></div> </div></div>
<br>=======================================================<br>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
<a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div> </div></body>
</html>