<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>I am just refuting faulty rhetoric. Don't take it so personally, Paul. I'm not criticizing you. I'm just criticizing your bad arguments and claims.</div><div><br>On Jul 25, 2013, at 2:22 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">Maybe you should spend less time trying to psychoanalyze me and more time jerking off, or whatever it is you enjoy doing.<br><br>Paul<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Joe Campbell <<a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Gary Crabtree <<a href="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com">moscowlocksmith@gmail.com</a>>; viz <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>>; Kenneth Marcy <<a href="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com">kmmos1@frontier.com</a>> <br> <b><span style="font-weight:
bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 25, 2013 2:18 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Global Warming: The North Pole is now a lake.<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv0698476753"><div><div>I love you approach to life. </div><div><br></div><div>If you're walking down the street and there's a black guy with the hoddie, then you can stalk him and then shoot him. You never know; he might be a danger to you. </div><div><br></div><div>But if 1 million scientists tell you that the earth is melting you can ignore them.</div><div><br></div><div>Nothing political about that set of beliefs!</div><div><br>On Jul 25, 2013, at 2:10 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;">Actually, this post started with a web page with a picture of a melt pond and a description of the north pole as a "lake".<br><br>I'm the one that threw in the graphs and charts and other tidbits, in order to place this observation in perspective.<br><br>Paujl<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;"> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Joe Campbell <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> Gary Crabtree <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com">moscowlocksmith@gmail.com</a>> <br><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Cc:</span></b> viz <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>>; Kenneth
Marcy <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com">kmmos1@frontier.com</a>> <br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 25, 2013 2:04 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Global Warming: The North Pole is now a lake.<br> </font> </div> <div class="yiv0698476753y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv0698476753"><div><div>This post started with a report of the findings of a scientific argument. If you reject scientific consensus, what could you possibly mean by "objective data"?</div><div><br>On Jul 25, 2013, at 1:35 PM, Gary Crabtree <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com">moscowlocksmith@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Take that, <span>Rumelhart</span>! No way objective data in the form
of charts or graphs can stand up to the scientific power of the
mighty limerick.</div><div> </div><div>g</div></div><div class="yiv0698476753gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="yiv0698476753gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Tom Hansen <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="yiv0698476753gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div><div><span></span></div><div><div><div style="text-align:left;margin-bottom:6px;"><div><span style="">Let's sum it up in poetry, Mr. Rumelhart.; limerick poetry, that is!</span></div>
<div><span style=""><br></span></div><div><span>------------------------------</span></div><div><span style=""><br></span></div><div><span style="">It's not cold in Alaska, not storming.</span></div>
<div><span style="">It's to world climate patterns conforming.</span></div><div><span style="">The permafrost's melting,</span></div><div><span style="">And temps are sunbelting,</span></div>
<div><span style="">As we all watch our doom—global warming.</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>------------------------------</span></div></div><div><br></div><div><div>
<span style="text-align:left;">The oceans are rising, I hear.</span></div><span style=""><span style="text-align:left;"><div>The atolls will soon disappear.</div>
</span><span style="text-align:left;"><div>These low-lying islands,</div></span><span style="text-align:left;"><div>So lacking in highlands,</div></span><span style="text-align:left;"><div>Will soon be submerged, so I fear.</div>
<div><br></div></span></span></div><div><span>------------------------------</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><div><span style="text-align:left;">Global warming could generate heat</span></div>
<span style=""><span style="text-align:left;"><div>That would cause polar ice to retreat.</div></span><span style="text-align:left;"><div>If the permafrost goes,</div></span><span style="text-align:left;"><div>
Words like <i>icebergs</i> and <i>floes</i></div></span><span style="text-align:left;"><div>Would, like <i>arctically</i>, be obsolete.</div></span></span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>------------------------------</span></div>
<div><span><br></span></div><div><div style="text-align:left;margin-bottom:6px;"><div><span style="">An Adelie<b> </b>besieged at the Pole</span></div><div><span style="">Can't protect its own eggs on patrol.</span></div>
<div><span style="">Damp spring snow, eggs exposed;</span></div><div><span style="">Penguin chicks die enclosed.</span></div><div><span style="">Global warming is taking its toll.</span></div>
</div></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>------------------------------</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><div><span style=""><span style="text-align:left;">Baked Alaska once just meant dessert.</span></span></div>
<span style=""><span style="text-align:left;"><div>Now it's feared that the Earth has been hurt.</div></span><span style="text-align:left;"><div>Ice caps melt; global warming</div></span><span style="text-align:left;"><div>
Keeps glaciers from forming.</div></span><span style="text-align:left;"><div>Can Ketchikan catch torrid dirt?</div></span></span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>------------------------------</span></div><div>
<span><br></span></div><div><div><span style=""><span style="text-align:left;">A </span><span style="text-align:left;">calamity</span><span style="text-align:left;">'s here, no mistakin';</span></span></div>
<span style=""><span style="text-align:left;"><div>Global warming has left us all shaken.</div></span><span style="text-align:left;"><div>America's hot,</div></span><span style="text-align:left;"><div>
But it's worse, is it not,</div></span><span style="text-align:left;"><div>What with every Canadian bakin'?</div></span></span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>------------------------------</span></div>
<div><span><br></span></div><div><div><span style="text-align:left;">Global warming may lower the boom,</span></div><span style=""><span style="text-align:left;"><div>
Leaving humans enshrouded in gloom.</div></span><span style="text-align:left;"><div>Will our hubris and sin</div></span><span style="text-align:left;"><div>Send the earth in a spin—</div></span><span style="text-align:left;"><div>
Cataclysmically plunging toward doom?</div></span></span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>------------------------------</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><div style="text-align:left;margin-bottom:6px;">
<div><span style="">My atlas is now out of date,</span></div><div><span style="">For Greenland's been changing of late;</span></div><div><span style="">Warming Island's appeared</span></div>
<div><span style="">And this means, as we feared,</span></div><div><span style="">There's a rise in the ice-melting rate.</span></div></div><div style="text-align:left;margin-top:16px;">
<div><span style="">And when glaciers break up they disclose</span></div><div><span style="">A topography nobody knows.</span></div><div><span style="">So as ice sheets retreat,</span></div>
<div><span style="">And seas rise with the heat,</span></div><div><span style="">The demand for new atlases grows.</span></div></div></div><div><span><br>
</span></div><div><span>------------------------------</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>You're welcome, Mr. Rumelhart.</span></div><br><div>Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .</div><div><br>
</div><div>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)</div><div><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.moscowcares.com/">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></div><div> </div><div><div>Tom Hansen</div>
<div>Moscow, Idaho</div><div><br></div><div>"<span style="font-size:medium;">There's room at the top they are telling you still</span><span style="font-size:medium;"> </span></div><span style="font-size:medium;">But first you must learn how to smile as you kill </span><br style="font-size:medium;">
<span style="font-size:medium;">If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span></div><div><font size="3"><span><br></span></font></div><div><font size="3"><span>- John Lennon<br></span></font><div> </div></div><div>
<br></div></div><div><br>On Jul 25, 2013, at 11:39 AM, Paul Rumelhart <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;">
Every year ice melts on large stretches of the ice cap where it cannot drain into the ocean. It forms ponds, puddles, lakes, whatever you want to call them. This happens at the North Pole as well as at other locations on the ice pack. This is one of the reasons determining sea ice area is difficult. It's hard to tell ocean water from water-on-top-of-the-ice sometimes. Currently, both the sea ice extent and sea ice area numbers are higher than they were last year and higher than they were in 2011 or 2007. Here is a nice place where a lot of the charts are linked to from the same source: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference-pages/sea-ice-page/">http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference-pages/sea-ice-page/</a> I must warn you that Ted hates this website, but since it's a bunch of links to data from official sciency-type places, I think it's OK to start
there.<br><br>I tend to watch the NORSEX SSM/I extent and area charts, since those are the charts I've been following for a few years now. There are also lots of other interesting graphs, as well as the webcam images from the north pole used in the article. If you go there and look at the two web cams right now, you'll see that only one looks like it's in a lake. The other one looks to be safely on solid ice/snow pack.<br>
<br>I don't say this out of some sort of effort to promote climate denialism in an attempt to wreak havoc on the framework of American Life and to lead your kids to rock music, I say it to stem the "OMG! The North Pole is a lake! We're all dooooomed!" hysteria. I have no idea how this year will turn out in terms of minimum extent or area compared to previous years, but I'd rather look at the pretty graphs than take all my information from a webcam
image.<br><br>Paul<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;"> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Kenneth Marcy <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com">kmmos1@frontier.com</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> viz <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:37 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Vision2020] Global Warming: The North Pole is now a lake.<br> </font> </div> <div>
<br><div>
<div>
If ever there was any doubt in your mind about global warming,
consider this news:<br>
<div>The North Pole, that great bastion of eternal cold and barren
ice, is a lake.</div>
<div>It’s a shallow lake. It’s a cold lake. But it is, actually, a
lake.</div>
<div>According to the <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/index.html">North
Pole Environmental Observatory</a>, the summer ice is melting
away at unprecedented rates. The sea of snow is now meltwater.<br>
</div>
<br>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://o.canada.com/2013/07/24/the-north-pole-is-now-a-lake/">http://o.canada.com/2013/07/24/the-north-pole-is-now-a-lake/</a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Ken
</div>
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