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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Why infer anything? They were charged, that's the obvious point he's making.<br><br>Sunil <br><br><hr>Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 18:04:01 -0700<br>From: godshatter@yahoo.com<br>To: sunilramalingam@hotmail.com<br>CC: vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Should he have stayed in his truck?<br><br>
  
    
  
  
    <div class=ecxmoz-cite-prefix><br>
      He compares a long list of charges the six teens are facing vs. a
      charge that was waived for Zimmerman.  What am I supposed to infer
      from that?<br>
      <br>
      Paul<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 07/22/2013 05:55 PM, Sunil Ramalingam wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:BAY155-W46B7C99273721DEAFBA938BD6F0@phx.gbl">
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      <div dir=ltr>Lord knows I disagree with Tom plenty. However, I
        think you're the only person who thinks Tom made that inference.<br>
        <br>
        Sunil <br>
        <br>
        <hr>Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:35:49 -0700<br>
        From: <a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><br>
        To: <a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a><br>
        CC: <a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
        Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Should he have stayed in his truck?<br>
        <br>
        <div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;">I don't
          know what 13- and 14-year-olds deserve.  I'll have to think
          about this for a while. I was just responding to Tom's
          inferences that these kids were getting the short end of the
          stick while Zimmerman, because people think of him as white I
          guess, got a waived sentence.  So I was curious what lesser
          sentences they deserved.<br>
          <br>
          I don't believe that there is any one age where a child
          magically becomes an adult.  It's a continuum.  I would also
          be very surprised if I found out that a adults brain
          crystallizes at a set age and never changes after that. 
          Anything beyond that I'll have to think about a bit.<br>
          <br>
          Oh, I'm not a neuroscience denier, by the way.  I'm sure that
          a teenagers brain is different than a middle-aged man's
          brain.  I just don't know what you want me to do with that
          information.  How should I change my current tactics of
          treating 17-year-olds as adults when I meet them?  What should
          I do differently, knowing that their brain functioning is not
          fully developed in the regions that govern impulse control? 
          Should we as a society not punish teenagers for doing things
          we are sure they understand are wrong?<br>
          <br>
          Paul<br>
          <br>
          <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;">
            <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;">
              <div dir=ltr>
                <hr size=1> <font face=Arial size=2> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Joe
                  Campbell <a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com"><philosopher.joe@gmail.com></a><br>
                  <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> Paul
                  Rumelhart <a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"><godshatter@yahoo.com></a> <br>
                  <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Cc:</span></b>
                  Moscow Cares <a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:moscowcares@moscow.com"><moscowcares@moscow.com></a>;
                  <a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.comVision2020">"vision2020@moscow.com Vision2020"</a>
                  <a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><vision2020@moscow.com></a> <br>
                  <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b>
                  Monday, July 22, 2013 3:36 PM<br>
                  <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b>
                  Re: [Vision2020] Should he have stayed in his truck?<br>
                </font> </div>
              <div class=ecxy_msg_container><br>
                <div id=ecxyiv1453104694>
                  <div dir=ltr>
                    <div>
                      <div>Paul,<br>
                        <br>
                        What do you think 13- and 14-year-olds deserve?
                        Of course, you ignore climate science, so it
                        doesn't surprise me that you ignored the
                        information I posted recently about brain
                        development and age too. But what do YOU think
                        and for what reason? What is YOUR theory of
                        moral responsibility? When do people become
                        eligible for guilt and punishment? At what age
                        and under what conditions are individuals to be
                        held fully accountable for their actions? And
                        what is YOUR justification for holding the view
                        about moral responsibility that you hold?
                        Immaterial soul? Magic? Anything you damn well
                        feel like believing?<br>
                        <br>
                      </div>
                      I'm not trying to be disrespectful. But I have an
                      answer to these questions. In fact, this is one of
                      my primary research interests, so I could talk
                      about it all day. I'd like to hear what you have
                      to say.<br>
                      <br>
                    </div>
                    Best, Joe<br>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div class=ecxyiv1453104694>
                          <div class=ecxyiv1453104694><img class=ecxyiv1453104694></div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div class=ecxyiv1453104694gmail_extra><br>
                    <br>
                    <div class=ecxyiv1453104694gmail_quote>
                      On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Paul Rumelhart <span dir=ltr><<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>></span>
                      wrote:<br>
                      <blockquote class=ecxyiv1453104694gmail_quote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
                        <div>
                          <div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;">Do you
                            think they deserve any less?<br>
                            <br>
                            Paul<br>
                            <div><span><br>
                              </span></div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;">
                              <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;">
                                <div dir=ltr>
                                  <hr size=1> <font face=Arial> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b>
                                    Moscow Cares <<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="mailto:moscowcares@moscow.com">moscowcares@moscow.com</a>><br>
                                    <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b>
                                    Joe Campbell <<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>>
                                    <br>
                                    <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Cc:</span></b>
                                    "<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>
                                    Vision2020" <<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>>
                                    <br>
                                    <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b>
                                    Monday, July 22, 2013 2:35 PM<br>
                                    <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b>
                                    Re: [Vision2020] Should he have
                                    stayed in his truck?<br>
                                  </font> </div>
                                <div>
                                  <div class=ecxyiv1453104694h5>
                                    <div><br>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <div><span></span></div>
                                          <div>
                                            <div><span></span></div>
                                            <div>
                                              <div>And those 13- and
                                                14-year-olds (in the
                                                beginning years of their
                                                teens) who assaulted
                                                Mahaney, . . . two
                                                sentenced to probation .
                                                . . three plead guilty
                                                to felonious assault . .
                                                . the sixth pending
                                                trial; all six of whom
                                                may be facing homicide
                                                charges if an autopsy
                                                reflects that the
                                                assault may have been
                                                contributory to
                                                Mahaney's death.</div>
                                              <div><br>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>Nope.  No waiver
                                                there.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                <div>Seeya 'round town,
                                                  Moscow, because . . .</div>
                                                <div><br>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>"Moscow Cares" (the
                                                  most fun you can have
                                                  with your pants on)</div>
                                                <div><a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.moscowcares.com/">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></div>
                                                <div>  </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>Tom Hansen</div>
                                                  <div>Moscow, Idaho</div>
                                                  <div><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>"<span style="font-size:medium;">There's
                                                      room at the top
                                                      they are telling
                                                      you still</span><span style="font-size:medium;"> </span></div>
                                                  <span style="font-size:medium;">But
                                                    first you must learn
                                                    how to smile as you
                                                    kill </span><br style="font-size:medium;">
                                                  <span style="font-size:medium;">If
                                                    you want to be like
                                                    the folks on the
                                                    hill."</span></div>
                                                <div><font size=3><span><br>
                                                    </span></font></div>
                                                <div><font size=3><span>-
                                                      John Lennon<br>
                                                    </span></font>
                                                  <div> </div>
                                                </div>
                                                <div><br>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                              <div><br>
                                                On Jul 22, 2013, at 2:11
                                                PM, Joe Campbell <<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>>
                                                wrote:<br>
                                                <br>
                                              </div>
                                              <blockquote>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>Barely out of his
                                                    teens? Again
                                                    relevant for him but
                                                    not Martin!?!</div>
                                                  <div><br>
                                                    On Jul 22, 2013, at
                                                    1:54 PM, Wayne Price
                                                    <<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="mailto:bear@moscow.com">bear@moscow.com</a>>

                                                    wrote:<br>
                                                    <br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <blockquote>
                                                    <div>1st charge,
                                                      "when he was
                                                       barely out of his
                                                      teens" :   waived
                                                      <div>2nd set of
                                                        charges (Civil
                                                        charge):  mutual
                                                        restraining
                                                        orders</div>
                                                      <div>3rd charge:
                                                        dismissed</div>
                                                      <div><br>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div><br>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div><br>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div><br>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div><br>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div><br>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div><br>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div><br>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div>On Jul
                                                          22, 2013, at
                                                          1:47 PM, Joe
                                                          Campbell
                                                          wrote:</div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <blockquote>
                                                          <div dir=ltr>
                                                          Here's some
                                                          more
                                                          information
                                                          about
                                                          Zimmerman.
                                                          Domestic
                                                          violence?
                                                          Fighting with
                                                          a police
                                                          officer? How
                                                          come no one
                                                          called him a
                                                          "thug"?<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/27/10894561-zimmerman-accused-of-domestic-violence-fighting-with-a-police-officer?lite">http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/27/10894561-zimmerman-accused-of-domestic-violence-fighting-with-a-police-officer?lite</a><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <div>On Mon,
                                                          Jul 22, 2013
                                                          at 12:04 PM,
                                                          Wayne Price <span dir=ltr><<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="mailto:bear@moscow.com">bear@moscow.com</a>></span>
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          <blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
                                                          <div style="word-wrap:break-word;"><span style="font-family:Arial, Helvetica, Utkal, sans-serif;line-height:18px;">
                                                          <h1 style="padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;border-top-width:0px;border-right-width:0px;border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;border-color:initial;font-weight:700;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;line-height:50px;text-align:center;font:normal normal bold 52px/52px arial;letter-spacing:-1px;color:rgb(64,58,55);">
                                                          <a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/22/us/florida-zimmerman-vehicle/index.html?hpt=hp_t1" style="padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;border-top-width:0px;border-right-width:0px;border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;border-color:initial;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(64,58,55);outline-width:0px;outline-color:initial;"><font size=5>Zimmerman
                                                          helps family
                                                          in car wreck</font></a></h1>
                                                          </span>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <span style="font-family:arial;font-size:14px;line-height:19px;"><b> 
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                            (CNN)</b> --
                                                          Four days
                                                          after he was
                                                          acquitted of
                                                          murder, George
                                                          Zimmerman
                                                          stepped out of
                                                          seclusion to
                                                          help a family
                                                          get out of an
                                                          overturned </span><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:14px;line-height:19px;">    vehicle
                                                          in Florida,
                                                          authorities
                                                          said Monday.</span>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <span style="font-family:Arial, Helvetica, Utkal, sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:18px;">
                                                          <div style="padding-top:0px;padding-right:24px;padding-bottom:19px;padding-left:186px;border-top-width:0px;border-right-width:0px;border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;border-color:initial;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-size:14px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;font:normal normal normal 14px/19px arial;">
                                                          Zimmerman and
                                                          another man
                                                          helped four
                                                          people get out
                                                          of an SUV that
                                                          had overturned
                                                          Wednesday
                                                          evening in
                                                          Sanford -- the
                                                          same community
                                                          where the
                                                          former
                                                          neighborhood
                                                          watch
                                                          volunteer
                                                          fatally shot
                                                          unarmed
                                                          teenager
                                                          Trayvon Martin
                                                          in 2012 --
                                                          Seminole
                                                          County
                                                          Sheriff's
                                                          Office
                                                          spokeswoman
                                                          Heather Smith
                                                          said.</div>
                                                          <div style="padding-top:0px;padding-right:24px;padding-bottom:19px;padding-left:186px;border-top-width:0px;border-right-width:0px;border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;border-color:initial;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-size:14px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;font:normal normal normal 14px/19px arial;">
                                                          Authorities
                                                          were called
                                                          after the SUV
                                                          went off the
                                                          road and
                                                          rolled over in
                                                          the area of
                                                          Interstate 4
                                                          and State Road
                                                          46. By the
                                                          time a deputy
                                                          arrived,
                                                          Zimmerman and
                                                          another man
                                                          already had
                                                          helped the two
                                                          adults and two
                                                          children out
                                                          of the
                                                          vehicle, Smith
                                                          said.</div>
                                                          <div style="padding-top:0px;padding-right:24px;padding-bottom:19px;padding-left:186px;border-top-width:0px;border-right-width:0px;border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;border-color:initial;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-size:14px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;font:normal normal normal 14px/19px arial;">
                                                          Zimmerman did
                                                          not witness
                                                          the crash, and
                                                          he left after
                                                          making contact
                                                          with the
                                                          deputy, Smith
                                                          said. No
                                                          injuries were
                                                          reported.</div>
                                                          <div style="padding-top:0px;padding-right:24px;padding-bottom:19px;padding-left:186px;border-top-width:0px;border-right-width:0px;border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;border-color:initial;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-size:14px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;font:normal normal normal 14px/19px arial;">
                                                          Zimmerman has
                                                          been out of
                                                          the public eye
                                                          since a jury
                                                          found him not
                                                          guilty of
                                                          second degree
                                                          murder on July
                                                          13. His
                                                          parents told
                                                          ABC News last
                                                          week that
                                                          their family
                                                          has received
                                                          an "enormous
                                                          amount of
                                                          death
                                                          threats."</div>
                                                          <div style="padding-top:0px;padding-right:24px;padding-bottom:19px;padding-left:186px;border-top-width:0px;border-right-width:0px;border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;border-color:initial;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-size:14px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;font:normal normal normal 14px/19px arial;">
                                                          He fatally
                                                          shot Martin in
                                                          the Sanford
                                                          neighborhood
                                                          where
                                                          Zimmerman and
                                                          Martin's
                                                          father lived
                                                          in February
                                                          2012.
                                                          Zimmerman, a
                                                          Hispanic man,
                                                          had a
                                                          confrontation
                                                          with the
                                                          African-American
                                                          teen after
                                                          calling police
                                                          to report a
                                                          suspicious
                                                          person, and he
                                                          said he shot
                                                          Martin in
                                                          self-defense.</div>
                                                          <div style="padding-top:0px;padding-right:24px;padding-bottom:19px;padding-left:186px;border-top-width:0px;border-right-width:0px;border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;border-color:initial;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-size:14px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;font:normal normal normal 14px/19px arial;">
                                                          The case
                                                          became a
                                                          flashpoint in
                                                          debates over
                                                          racial
                                                          profiling, and
                                                          thousands
                                                          attended
                                                          vigils across
                                                          the country
                                                          over the
                                                          weekend,
                                                          decrying the
                                                          verdict.</div>
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
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                                                          since 1994.<br>
                                                                       
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=======================================================<br>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <br>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                </div>
                                              </blockquote>
                                              <blockquote>
                                                <div><span>=======================================================</span><br>
                                                  <span> List services
                                                    made available by
                                                    First Step Internet,</span><br>
                                                  <span> serving the
                                                    communities of the
                                                    Palouse since 1994.</span><br>
                                                  <span>               <a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.fsr.net/">http://www.fsr.net</a></span><br>
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                                                  <span>=======================================================</span></div>
                                              </blockquote>
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                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <br>
=======================================================<br>
                                      List services made available by
                                      First Step Internet,<br>
                                      serving the communities of the
                                      Palouse since 1994.<br>
                                                    <a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.fsr.net/">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
                                                mailto:<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================<br>
                                      <br>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <br>
                <br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
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      <br>
      <fieldset class=ecxmimeAttachmentHeader></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre>=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               <a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext href="http://www.fsr.net" target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net</a>
          <a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
=======================================================</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  

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