<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>How is my comment considered racist, Mr. Rumelhart!<br><br><div>Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .</div><div><br></div><div>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)</div><div><a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></div><div> </div><div><div>Tom Hansen</div><div>Moscow, Idaho</div><div><br></div><div>"<span style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">There's room at the top they are telling you still</span><span style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "> </span></div><span style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">But first you must learn how to smile as you kill </span><br style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><span style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span></div><div><font size="3"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);"><br></span></font></div><div><font size="3"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);">- John Lennon<br></span></font><div> </div></div><div><br></div></div><div><br>On Jul 22, 2013, at 5:21 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
Fine. The race stuff I added was in response to how everyone
makes this into a race issue. Here is a quote from Tom Hansen:<br>
<br>
"George Zimmerman, an armed 28-year old neighborhood watch,
follows, shoots and kills Trayvon Martin, a 17-year old boy (armed
with Skittles) who lives in the neighborhood in which he was
killed."<br>
<br>
Is that a fair characterization of the events that transpired that
night? <br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 07/22/2013 05:13 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:90DABC76-0DF4-4FA9-83DC-5FA6CA7B40E7@gmail.com" type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div>No one is characterizing the issue the way you did below. You
should have more care and respect for others when talking about
this issue.</div>
<div><br>
On Jul 22, 2013, at 4:47 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:times new roman, new york, times,
serif;font-size:12pt">I agree he should have gone home. I
just don't like the mis-characterization of him as some guy
that stalked Martin through the trees and murdered him in
cold blood only because he was black. That's a disservice
to Zimmerman, and it's only done because he had the gall to
be carrying a handgun on his person in a political
environment where gun control is all the rage, and because
he wasn't charged with second degree murder immediately
(through no fault of his own). Oh, and because everyone
wants to think of him as white, and therefore "entitled".<br>
<br>
So let me ask you, do you think there was sufficient
evidence to convict Zimmerman on second degree murder
charges? Did the jury, in your personal opinion, show
systemic racism in their verdict? Also, do you think "white
guy stalks and guns down innocent black teenager" is a fair
summary of the events that happened that night?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times,
serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times,
serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Sunil
Ramalingam <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Monday, July 22, 2013 4:25 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice<br>
</font> </div>
<div class="y_msg_container"><br>
<div id="yiv0781227224">
<style><!--
#yiv0781227224 .yiv0781227224hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;padding:0px;}
#yiv0781227224 body.yiv0781227224hmmessage
{
font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}
--></style>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Paul,<br>
<br>
Your defense of Zimmerman stopped being
outlandish last week; you're well beyond that
now.<br>
<br>
I don't think you should use 'meme' to describe
what others are saying until you comprehend that
Zimmerman should have listened to the dispatcher
and gone home. This happened because he had a
gun; if he didn't he would have gone home.<br>
<br>
He had called 911; he was done.<br>
<br>
Sunil<br>
<br>
<hr>Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:42:56 -0700<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com">rhayes@frontier.com</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice<br>
<br>
<div style="">I respectfully disagree with your
conclusion. I don't think the jury verdict is
an example of systemic racism. That was my
original point. They just didn't have the
evidence needed to convict. From looking at
the evidence myself, I support their
decision. Race doesn't enter into it, it's
just a conclusion based on the evidence.<br>
<br>
I do see two places where systemic racism
might have occurred:<br>
<br>
1. When the police decided not to arrest
Zimmerman at the very beginning. I'm assuming
the police didn't arrest him because they
didn't think they had a case, which was born
out by the not guilty verdict. They probably
should have arrested him anyway and let the
courts figure that out, though. Maybe they
didn't arrest him because he was
white/hispanic. That's certainly possible.
It's also possible that it had more to do with
the fact that he knew them. That would be
cronyism, though.<br>
<br>
2. The other place where I see systemic racism
is in how the media and the liberal community
both are treating this case. NBC doctored the
911 call at the very beginning to make it look
like racial profiling, and everyone seems to
have jumped on that bandwagon. This didn't
have to be about race. The fact that it
became about race shows a large element of
systemic racism in our media and in many other
areas, including in political circles. I've
seen nothing to make me think that Zimmerman
targeted Martin because he was black. Because
he was suspicious, sure. Because he was a
teenager, maybe. But not because of his race.<br>
<br>
I also object, in a nice, non-confrontational
way, with your characterization of people
posting here about the "rightness of the death
of a boy at the hands of a vigilante". I have
never said that Trayvon Martin should have
died, nor have I expressed an opinion about
whether or not I would think that a good
thing. I haven't seen anyone else do so,
either. I've just been trying to express why
I think the jury's verdict made sense, and to
counter the "white guy stalks and guns down an
innocent black teenager" meme that, based on
the evidence, seems to be made out of whole
cloth.<br>
<br>
I do think that Martin should not have
attacked Zimmerman, if that is indeed what
happened. The evidence I've seen points that
way. I think it's tragic that he died,
especially since this whole confrontation
could have easily been avoided by both Martin
and Zimmerman.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="">
<div style="">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="">From:</span></b>
"<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com">rhayes@frontier.com</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com">rhayes@frontier.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="">To:</span></b> "<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>>
<br>
<b><span style="">Sent:</span></b>
Monday, July 22, 2013 10:43 AM<br>
<b><span style="">Subject:</span></b>
[Vision2020] systemic injustice<br>
</font> </div>
<div class="yiv0781227224ecxy_msg_container"><br>
<div id="yiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277">
<div>
<div style="">
<div><span>To those who insist on
posting the rightness of the
death of a boy at the hands of
a vigilante, I post a soft
spoken message. And I would
remind you that your words may
be hurtful...</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div>I live in a bubble far
removed from the rest of the
country and my past. When, as a
young man, I moved to
Moscow from just north of the
Mason-Dixon line, I was relieved
to be free from all the issues
of race. Yea, I'm white.
Privileged by my birth. As a
kid, race and ethnicity were
overwhelming to me. Italians
hated the Irish, Poles were
disliked and distrusted by
almost everyone. The blacks
didn't like whites in general.
Whites distrusted blacks.
Everyone had names for everyone
<span class="yiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277mark" id="yiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277misspell-0">else's</span> ethnicity.
Whops, spics, <span class="yiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277mark" id="yiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277misspell-1">hunkies</span>, kikes,
hillbillies... the list of
derogatory names goes on and
on. </div>
<div><span>I was despised because
of being sometimes Irish,
sometimes a sort of <span id="yiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277misspell-2">Polack.</span>
I learned to run and run fast
to keep from being beaten up
by what ever group that
happened to cross my path.
However, I didn't
see/understand systemic racism
until our Boy Scout troop
tried to go swimming in the
CITY pool. They stopped us
because we were an integrated
troop. Being young I never
stopped to think why
there never were black kids in
the pool...EVER. The man that
stopped us was a "greasy"
(another derogatory slur)Greek
with kinky hair and a pretty
dark complexion. He stopped
Jerome with his arm saying,
"Not You!" Our scout master
must have known what he was up
to, and to this day I hold him
in high esteem as a brave and
principled man. And when
that Greek guy stopped him
from entering the locker, I
looked at Jerome, and maybe
for the first time saw him as
a black kid with whom I had
camped, sang, cooked dinners,
and saw what his life
entailed. It was much more
than name calling, being
hated, distrusted. It was a
system of hatred. </span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>Back to the bubble
thing...</span></div>
<div>So I moved here and left
ethnicity and race issues
behind. Well, not really. It
isn't so much an issue here
because the majority, the vast
majority of people are white,
like me. It is inevitable that
this will change. It is already
changing and changing rapidly.
How will this area deal with
race and ethnicity? There are
hate groups and hateful people
conveniently located nearby. We
need to be vigilant with our
communities, and with ourselves.
It is convenient to be blind to
the hatred surrounding us. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I suppose one good thing that
the so called "jury" in Florida
proved is that SYSTEMIC racism
still exists. I sometimes forget
that. I live in a bubble. Now I
am reminded, but should a young
man's life be sacrificed so that
I would again see? People who
deny that injustice exists live
in a state of blind shame. <br>
</div>
<div style="">
<div style="">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
=======================================================<br>
List services made available by First
Step Internet,<br>
serving the communities of the Palouse
since 1994.<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="" rel="nofollow">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="" rel="nofollow">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step
Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse
since 1994. <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
=======================================================
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
=======================================================<br>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>=======================================================</span><br>
<span> List services made available by First Step Internet,</span><br>
<span> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</span><br>
<span> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a></span><br>
<span> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br>
<span>=======================================================</span></div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>=======================================================</span><br><span> List services made available by First Step Internet,</span><br><span> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a></span><br><span> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br><span>=======================================================</span></div></blockquote></body></html>