<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">Mr. Rumelhart . . .</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">You stated </div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">"</span><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">The race stuff I added was in response to how everyone makes this into a race issue."</span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Then you go on to cite my comment.</span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">If my comment was not (as strongly suggested by your posting) making this into a race issue, why cite it?</span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Don't bother answering. Your spin is making me dizzy.</span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">'Nuff EFFING said!<br></span><br><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "> </div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><div>Tom Hansen</div><div>Moscow, Idaho</div><div><br></div><div>"<span style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">There's room at the top they are telling you still</span><span style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "> </span></div><span style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">But first you must learn how to smile as you kill </span><br style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><span style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><font size="3"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);"><br></span></font></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><font size="3"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);">- John Lennon<br></span></font><div> </div></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br>On Jul 22, 2013, at 5:53 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
Did not say it was. I said the race portion that I added to my
earlier little summary was brought from a few different areas. So
then I went to find an actual quote from someone to use. I was
not trying to imply that that comment was racist.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 07/22/2013 05:28 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:9DA00840-F01A-4CB9-B055-EC071F672110@moscow.com" type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div>How is my comment considered racist, Mr. Rumelhart!<br>
<br>
<div>Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants
on)</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.MoscowCares.com">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>Tom Hansen</div>
<div>Moscow, Idaho</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"<span style="font-size: medium;
-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969);
-webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128,
180, 0.230469); ">There's room at the top they are telling
you still</span><span style="font-size: medium;
-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969);
-webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128,
180, 0.230469); "> </span></div>
<span style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color:
rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color:
rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
-webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469); ">But first you must learn how to smile as you
kill </span><br style="font-size: medium;
-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
-webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128,
180, 0.230469); ">
<span style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color:
rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color:
rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
-webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469); ">If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span></div>
<div><font size="3"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color:
rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969);
-webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128,
180, 0.230469);"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font size="3"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color:
rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969);
-webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128,
180, 0.230469);">- John Lennon<br>
</span></font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Jul 22, 2013, at 5:21 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
Fine. The race stuff I added was in response to how
everyone makes this into a race issue. Here is a quote from
Tom Hansen:<br>
<br>
"George Zimmerman, an armed 28-year old neighborhood watch,
follows, shoots and kills Trayvon Martin, a 17-year old boy
(armed with Skittles) who lives in the neighborhood in which
he was killed."<br>
<br>
Is that a fair characterization of the events that
transpired that night? <br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 07/22/2013 05:13 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:90DABC76-0DF4-4FA9-83DC-5FA6CA7B40E7@gmail.com" type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div>No one is characterizing the issue the way you did
below. You should have more care and respect for others
when talking about this issue.</div>
<div><br>
On Jul 22, 2013, at 4:47 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:times new roman, new york, times,
serif;font-size:12pt">I agree he should have gone
home. I just don't like the mis-characterization of
him as some guy that stalked Martin through the trees
and murdered him in cold blood only because he was
black. That's a disservice to Zimmerman, and it's
only done because he had the gall to be carrying a
handgun on his person in a political environment where
gun control is all the rage, and because he wasn't
charged with second degree murder immediately (through
no fault of his own). Oh, and because everyone wants
to think of him as white, and therefore "entitled".<br>
<br>
So let me ask you, do you think there was sufficient
evidence to convict Zimmerman on second degree murder
charges? Did the jury, in your personal opinion, show
systemic racism in their verdict? Also, do you think
"white guy stalks and guns down innocent black
teenager" is a fair summary of the events that
happened that night?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: times new roman, new york,
times, serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: times new roman, new york,
times, serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b>
Sunil Ramalingam <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Monday, July 22, 2013 4:25 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice<br>
</font> </div>
<div class="y_msg_container"><br>
<div id="yiv0781227224">
<style><!--
#yiv0781227224 .yiv0781227224hmmessage P
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<div>
<div dir="ltr">Paul,<br>
<br>
Your defense of Zimmerman stopped being
outlandish last week; you're well beyond
that now.<br>
<br>
I don't think you should use 'meme' to
describe what others are saying until you
comprehend that Zimmerman should have
listened to the dispatcher and gone home.
This happened because he had a gun; if he
didn't he would have gone home.<br>
<br>
He had called 911; he was done.<br>
<br>
Sunil<br>
<br>
<hr>Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:42:56 -0700<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com">rhayes@frontier.com</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] systemic
injustice<br>
<br>
<div style="">I respectfully disagree with
your conclusion. I don't think the jury
verdict is an example of systemic
racism. That was my original point.
They just didn't have the evidence
needed to convict. From looking at the
evidence myself, I support their
decision. Race doesn't enter into it,
it's just a conclusion based on the
evidence.<br>
<br>
I do see two places where systemic
racism might have occurred:<br>
<br>
1. When the police decided not to arrest
Zimmerman at the very beginning. I'm
assuming the police didn't arrest him
because they didn't think they had a
case, which was born out by the not
guilty verdict. They probably should
have arrested him anyway and let the
courts figure that out, though. Maybe
they didn't arrest him because he was
white/hispanic. That's certainly
possible. It's also possible that it
had more to do with the fact that he
knew them. That would be cronyism,
though.<br>
<br>
2. The other place where I see systemic
racism is in how the media and the
liberal community both are treating this
case. NBC doctored the 911 call at the
very beginning to make it look like
racial profiling, and everyone seems to
have jumped on that bandwagon. This
didn't have to be about race. The fact
that it became about race shows a large
element of systemic racism in our media
and in many other areas, including in
political circles. I've seen nothing to
make me think that Zimmerman targeted
Martin because he was black. Because he
was suspicious, sure. Because he was a
teenager, maybe. But not because of his
race.<br>
<br>
I also object, in a nice,
non-confrontational way, with your
characterization of people posting here
about the "rightness of the death of a
boy at the hands of a vigilante". I
have never said that Trayvon Martin
should have died, nor have I expressed
an opinion about whether or not I would
think that a good thing. I haven't seen
anyone else do so, either. I've just
been trying to express why I think the
jury's verdict made sense, and to
counter the "white guy stalks and guns
down an innocent black teenager" meme
that, based on the evidence, seems to be
made out of whole cloth.<br>
<br>
I do think that Martin should not have
attacked Zimmerman, if that is indeed
what happened. The evidence I've seen
points that way. I think it's tragic
that he died, especially since this
whole confrontation could have easily
been avoided by both Martin and
Zimmerman.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="">
<div style="">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="">From:</span></b>
"<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com">rhayes@frontier.com</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com">rhayes@frontier.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="">To:</span></b>
"<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>>
<br>
<b><span style="">Sent:</span></b>
Monday, July 22, 2013 10:43 AM<br>
<b><span style="">Subject:</span></b>
[Vision2020] systemic injustice<br>
</font> </div>
<div class="yiv0781227224ecxy_msg_container"><br>
<div id="yiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277">
<div>
<div style="">
<div><span>To those who
insist on posting the
rightness of the death
of a boy at the hands of
a vigilante, I post a
soft spoken message. And
I would remind you that
your words may be
hurtful...</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div>I live in a bubble far
removed from the rest of
the country and my past.
When, as a young
man, I moved to
Moscow from just north of
the Mason-Dixon line, I
was relieved to be free
from all the issues of
race. Yea, I'm white.
Privileged by my birth. As
a kid, race and ethnicity
were overwhelming to me.
Italians hated the Irish,
Poles were disliked and
distrusted by almost
everyone. The blacks
didn't like whites in
general. Whites distrusted
blacks. Everyone had names
for everyone <span class="yiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277mark" id="yiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277misspell-0">else's</span> ethnicity.
Whops, spics, <span class="yiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277mark" id="yiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277misspell-1">hunkies</span>, kikes,
hillbillies... the list of
derogatory names goes on
and on. </div>
<div><span>I was despised
because of being
sometimes Irish,
sometimes a sort of <span id="yiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277misspell-2">Polack.</span> I learned to
run and run fast to keep
from being beaten up by
what ever group that
happened to cross my
path. However, I didn't
see/understand systemic
racism until our Boy
Scout troop tried to go
swimming in the CITY
pool. They stopped us
because we were
an integrated
troop. Being young I
never stopped to think
why there never
were black kids in the
pool...EVER. The man
that stopped us was a
"greasy" (another
derogatory slur)Greek
with kinky hair and a
pretty dark complexion.
He stopped Jerome with
his arm saying, "Not
You!" Our scout master
must have known what he
was up to, and to this
day I hold him in high
esteem as a brave and
principled man. And
when that Greek guy
stopped him from
entering the locker, I
looked at Jerome,
and maybe for the first
time saw him as a black
kid with whom I had
camped, sang, cooked
dinners, and saw what
his life entailed. It
was much more than name
calling, being hated,
distrusted. It was a
system of hatred. </span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>Back to the
bubble thing...</span></div>
<div>So I moved here and
left ethnicity and race
issues behind. Well, not
really. It isn't so much
an issue here because the
majority, the vast
majority of people are
white, like me. It is
inevitable that this will
change. It is already
changing and changing
rapidly. How will this
area deal with race and
ethnicity? There are hate
groups and hateful people
conveniently located
nearby. We need to be
vigilant with our
communities, and with
ourselves. It is
convenient to be blind to
the hatred surrounding us.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I suppose one good
thing that the so called
"jury" in Florida proved
is that SYSTEMIC racism
still exists. I sometimes
forget that. I live in a
bubble. Now I am reminded,
but should a young man's
life be sacrificed so that
I would again see? People
who deny that injustice
exists live in a state of
blind shame. <br>
</div>
<div style="">
<div style="">
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