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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Always with the inane excuses in this case.<br><br>How about this:<br><br>Fuck him for following Martin. Fuck him for not listening to the dispatcher. Fuck him for getting out of his rig.<br><br>If he was ever in danger of getting his gun pulled on him, it's because Shit For Brains was out being an asshole.<br><br>Sunil <br><br><hr>Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 18:28:46 -0700<br>From: godshatter@yahoo.com<br>To: sunilramalingam@hotmail.com<br>CC: vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice<br><br>
<div class=ecxmoz-cite-prefix><br>
So, basically "fuck him" based on nothing other than your
assumption that he was being overzealous in trying to do his
neighborhood watch thing. I guess he should have just let Martin
pull his own gun on him and end his sorry existence, right?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 07/22/2013 06:03 PM, Sunil Ramalingam wrote:<br>
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<div dir=ltr>Disservice to Zimmerman? He killed a kid because
he's a dumbshit cop wannabe, and you're concerned about
disservices to that sphincter?<br>
<br>
I didn't follow the case closely and I don't know if there was
enough evidence to convict. I won't criticize the verdict
because I would gladly take it if I were Zimmerman's lawyer.<br>
<br>
But I think the cops did a poor job at the beginning and that
affected everything that followed. And anyone who pretends race
doesn't affect the criminal justice system is full of crap.<br>
<br>
Sunil <br>
<br>
<hr>Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:47:10 -0700<br>
From: <a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice<br>
To: <a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>; <a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
<br>
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;">I agree he
should have gone home. I just don't like the
mis-characterization of him as some guy that stalked Martin
through the trees and murdered him in cold blood only because
he was black. That's a disservice to Zimmerman, and it's only
done because he had the gall to be carrying a handgun on his
person in a political environment where gun control is all the
rage, and because he wasn't charged with second degree murder
immediately (through no fault of his own). Oh, and because
everyone wants to think of him as white, and therefore
"entitled".<br>
<br>
So let me ask you, do you think there was sufficient evidence
to convict Zimmerman on second degree murder charges? Did the
jury, in your personal opinion, show systemic racism in their
verdict? Also, do you think "white guy stalks and guns down
innocent black teenager" is a fair summary of the events that
happened that night?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
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<div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;">
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<div dir=ltr>
<hr size=1> <font face=Arial size=2> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Sunil
Ramalingam <a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com"><sunilramalingam@hotmail.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b>
<a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Monday, July 22, 2013 4:25 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice<br>
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<div dir=ltr>Paul,<br>
<br>
Your defense of Zimmerman stopped being outlandish
last week; you're well beyond that now.<br>
<br>
I don't think you should use 'meme' to describe
what others are saying until you comprehend that
Zimmerman should have listened to the dispatcher
and gone home. This happened because he had a gun;
if he didn't he would have gone home.<br>
<br>
He had called 911; he was done.<br>
<br>
Sunil<br>
<br>
<hr>Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:42:56 -0700<br>
From: <a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><br>
To: <a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com">rhayes@frontier.com</a>; <a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice<br>
<br>
<div style="">I respectfully disagree with your
conclusion. I don't think the jury verdict is
an example of systemic racism. That was my
original point. They just didn't have the
evidence needed to convict. From looking at the
evidence myself, I support their decision. Race
doesn't enter into it, it's just a conclusion
based on the evidence.<br>
<br>
I do see two places where systemic racism might
have occurred:<br>
<br>
1. When the police decided not to arrest
Zimmerman at the very beginning. I'm assuming
the police didn't arrest him because they didn't
think they had a case, which was born out by the
not guilty verdict. They probably should have
arrested him anyway and let the courts figure
that out, though. Maybe they didn't arrest him
because he was white/hispanic. That's certainly
possible. It's also possible that it had more
to do with the fact that he knew them. That
would be cronyism, though.<br>
<br>
2. The other place where I see systemic racism
is in how the media and the liberal community
both are treating this case. NBC doctored the
911 call at the very beginning to make it look
like racial profiling, and everyone seems to
have jumped on that bandwagon. This didn't have
to be about race. The fact that it became about
race shows a large element of systemic racism in
our media and in many other areas, including in
political circles. I've seen nothing to make me
think that Zimmerman targeted Martin because he
was black. Because he was suspicious, sure.
Because he was a teenager, maybe. But not
because of his race.<br>
<br>
I also object, in a nice, non-confrontational
way, with your characterization of people
posting here about the "rightness of the death
of a boy at the hands of a vigilante". I have
never said that Trayvon Martin should have died,
nor have I expressed an opinion about whether or
not I would think that a good thing. I haven't
seen anyone else do so, either. I've just been
trying to express why I think the jury's verdict
made sense, and to counter the "white guy stalks
and guns down an innocent black teenager" meme
that, based on the evidence, seems to be made
out of whole cloth.<br>
<br>
I do think that Martin should not have attacked
Zimmerman, if that is indeed what happened. The
evidence I've seen points that way. I think
it's tragic that he died, especially since this
whole confrontation could have easily been
avoided by both Martin and Zimmerman.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="">
<div style="">
<div dir=ltr>
<hr size=1> <font face=Arial size=2>
<b><span style="">From:</span></b>
<a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com">"rhayes@frontier.com"</a>
<a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com"><rhayes@frontier.com></a><br>
<b><span style="">To:</span></b>
<a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">"vision2020@moscow.com"</a>
<a class=ecxmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><vision2020@moscow.com></a> <br>
<b><span style="">Sent:</span></b>
Monday, July 22, 2013 10:43 AM<br>
<b><span style="">Subject:</span></b>
[Vision2020] systemic injustice<br>
</font> </div>
<div class=ecxyiv0781227224ecxy_msg_container><br>
<div id=ecxyiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277>
<div>
<div style="">
<div><span>To those who insist on
posting the rightness of the
death of a boy at the hands of a
vigilante, I post a soft spoken
message. And I would remind you
that your words may be
hurtful...</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div>I live in a bubble far removed
from the rest of the country and
my past. When, as a young
man, I moved to Moscow from just
north of the Mason-Dixon line, I
was relieved to be free from all
the issues of race. Yea, I'm
white. Privileged by my birth. As
a kid, race and ethnicity were
overwhelming to me. Italians hated
the Irish, Poles were disliked and
distrusted by almost everyone. The
blacks didn't like whites in
general. Whites distrusted blacks.
Everyone had names for everyone <span class=ecxyiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277mark id=ecxyiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277misspell-0>else's</span>
ethnicity. Whops, spics, <span class=ecxyiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277mark id=ecxyiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277misspell-1>hunkies</span>, kikes,
hillbillies... the list of
derogatory names goes on and on. </div>
<div><span>I was despised because of
being sometimes Irish, sometimes
a sort of <span id=ecxyiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277misspell-2>Polack.</span>
I learned to run and run fast to
keep from being beaten up by
what ever group that happened to
cross my path. However, I didn't
see/understand systemic racism
until our Boy Scout troop tried
to go swimming in the CITY pool.
They stopped us because we were
an integrated troop. Being young
I never stopped to think why
there never were black kids in
the pool...EVER. The man that
stopped us was a "greasy"
(another derogatory slur)Greek
with kinky hair and a pretty
dark complexion. He stopped
Jerome with his arm saying, "Not
You!" Our scout master must have
known what he was up to, and to
this day I hold him in high
esteem as a brave and principled
man. And when that Greek guy
stopped him from entering the
locker, I looked at Jerome,
and maybe for the first time saw
him as a black kid with whom I
had camped, sang, cooked
dinners, and saw what his life
entailed. It was much more than
name calling, being hated,
distrusted. It was a system of
hatred. </span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>Back to the bubble
thing...</span></div>
<div>So I moved here and left
ethnicity and race issues behind.
Well, not really. It isn't so much
an issue here because the
majority, the vast majority of
people are white, like me. It is
inevitable that this will change.
It is already changing and
changing rapidly. How will this
area deal with race and ethnicity?
There are hate groups and hateful
people conveniently located
nearby. We need to be vigilant
with our communities, and with
ourselves. It is convenient to be
blind to the hatred surrounding
us. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I suppose one good thing that
the so called "jury" in Florida
proved is that SYSTEMIC racism
still exists. I sometimes forget
that. I live in a bubble. Now I am
reminded, but should a young man's
life be sacrificed so that I would
again see? People who deny
that injustice exists live in a
state of blind shame. <br>
</div>
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