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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
Look, it's simple.<br>
<br>
Joe admonished me for using a comment that no one here would say
or had said.<br>
<br>
I acknowledged that my comment had racial overtones that I had
been using to summarize what some people and the media had been
saying.<br>
<br>
I then replaced it with a comment (yours) that did not have a
racial component and that had the advantage of being an actual
quote. Joe can no longer admonish me for using a comment that no
one would say.<br>
<br>
You then (because I worded it poorly) came to the conclusion that
I was somehow calling you out for being racist. Which was not the
case.<br>
<br>
Clear?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
On 07/22/2013 06:06 PM, Moscow Cares wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:E0DD3B2B-A5D8-46BD-887D-9CF42B1409A5@moscow.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">Mr. Rumelhart . . .</div>
<div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br>
</div>
<div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">You stated </div>
<div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br>
</div>
<div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">"</span><span
style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color:
rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">The race stuff I added was in
response to how everyone makes this into a race issue."</span></div>
<div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Then you go on
to cite my comment.</span></div>
<div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">If my comment
was not (as strongly suggested by your posting) making this
into a race issue, why cite it?</span></div>
<div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Don't bother
answering. Your spin is making me dizzy.</span></div>
<div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">'Nuff EFFING
said!<br>
</span><br>
<div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">Seeya 'round town,
Moscow, because . . .</div>
<div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br>
</div>
<div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">"Moscow Cares"
(the most fun you can have with your pants on)</div>
<div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.MoscowCares.com">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></div>
<div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "> </div>
<div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">
<div>Tom Hansen</div>
<div>Moscow, Idaho</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"<span style="font-size: medium;
-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969);
-webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128,
180, 0.230469); ">There's room at the top they are telling
you still</span><span style="font-size: medium;
-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969);
-webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128,
180, 0.230469); "> </span></div>
<span style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color:
rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color:
rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
-webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469); ">But first you must learn how to smile as you
kill </span><br style="font-size: medium;
-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
-webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128,
180, 0.230469); ">
<span style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color:
rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color:
rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
-webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469); ">If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span></div>
<div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><font size="3"><span
style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192,
227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77,
128, 180, 0.230469);"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><font size="3"><span
style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192,
227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77,
128, 180, 0.230469);">- John Lennon<br>
</span></font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br>
</div>
</div>
<div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br>
On Jul 22, 2013, at 5:53 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">
<div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
Did not say it was. I said the race portion that I added to
my earlier little summary was brought from a few different
areas. So then I went to find an actual quote from someone
to use. I was not trying to imply that that comment was
racist.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 07/22/2013 05:28 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:9DA00840-F01A-4CB9-B055-EC071F672110@moscow.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div>How is my comment considered racist, Mr. Rumelhart!<br>
<br>
<div>Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your
pants on)</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.MoscowCares.com">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>Tom Hansen</div>
<div>Moscow, Idaho</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"<span style="font-size: medium;
-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175,
192, 227, 0.230469);
-webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469); ">There's room at the top they are
telling you still</span><span style="font-size:
medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26,
26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color:
rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
-webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469); "> </span></div>
<span style="font-size: medium;
-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175,
192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color:
rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">But first you must
learn how to smile as you kill </span><br
style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color:
rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);
-webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77,
128, 180, 0.230469); ">
<span style="font-size: medium;
-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175,
192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color:
rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">If you want to be like
the folks on the hill."</span></div>
<div><font size="3"><span
style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175,
192, 227, 0.230469);
-webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469);"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font size="3"><span
style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175,
192, 227, 0.230469);
-webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469);">- John Lennon<br>
</span></font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Jul 22, 2013, at 5:21 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
Fine. The race stuff I added was in response to how
everyone makes this into a race issue. Here is a
quote from Tom Hansen:<br>
<br>
"George Zimmerman, an armed 28-year old neighborhood
watch, follows, shoots and kills Trayvon Martin, a
17-year old boy (armed with Skittles) who lives in the
neighborhood in which he was killed."<br>
<br>
Is that a fair characterization of the events that
transpired that night? <br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 07/22/2013 05:13 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:90DABC76-0DF4-4FA9-83DC-5FA6CA7B40E7@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div>No one is characterizing the issue the way you
did below. You should have more care and respect for
others when talking about this issue.</div>
<div><br>
On Jul 22, 2013, at 4:47 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:times new roman, new york, times,
serif;font-size:12pt">I agree he should have
gone home. I just don't like the
mis-characterization of him as some guy that
stalked Martin through the trees and murdered
him in cold blood only because he was black.
That's a disservice to Zimmerman, and it's only
done because he had the gall to be carrying a
handgun on his person in a political environment
where gun control is all the rage, and because
he wasn't charged with second degree murder
immediately (through no fault of his own). Oh,
and because everyone wants to think of him as
white, and therefore "entitled".<br>
<br>
So let me ask you, do you think there was
sufficient evidence to convict Zimmerman on
second degree murder charges? Did the jury, in
your personal opinion, show systemic racism in
their verdict? Also, do you think "white guy
stalks and guns down innocent black teenager" is
a fair summary of the events that happened that
night?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: times new roman, new
york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: times new roman, new
york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b>
Sunil Ramalingam <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Monday, July 22, 2013 4:25 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice<br>
</font> </div>
<div class="y_msg_container"><br>
<div id="yiv0781227224">
<style><!--
#yiv0781227224 .yiv0781227224hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;padding:0px;}
#yiv0781227224 body.yiv0781227224hmmessage
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<div>
<div dir="ltr">Paul,<br>
<br>
Your defense of Zimmerman stopped
being outlandish last week; you're
well beyond that now.<br>
<br>
I don't think you should use 'meme'
to describe what others are saying
until you comprehend that Zimmerman
should have listened to the
dispatcher and gone home. This
happened because he had a gun; if he
didn't he would have gone home.<br>
<br>
He had called 911; he was done.<br>
<br>
Sunil<br>
<br>
<hr>Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:42:56
-0700<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com">rhayes@frontier.com</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] systemic
injustice<br>
<br>
<div style="">I respectfully
disagree with your conclusion. I
don't think the jury verdict is an
example of systemic racism. That
was my original point. They just
didn't have the evidence needed to
convict. From looking at the
evidence myself, I support their
decision. Race doesn't enter into
it, it's just a conclusion based
on the evidence.<br>
<br>
I do see two places where systemic
racism might have occurred:<br>
<br>
1. When the police decided not to
arrest Zimmerman at the very
beginning. I'm assuming the
police didn't arrest him because
they didn't think they had a case,
which was born out by the not
guilty verdict. They probably
should have arrested him anyway
and let the courts figure that
out, though. Maybe they didn't
arrest him because he was
white/hispanic. That's certainly
possible. It's also possible that
it had more to do with the fact
that he knew them. That would be
cronyism, though.<br>
<br>
2. The other place where I see
systemic racism is in how the
media and the liberal community
both are treating this case. NBC
doctored the 911 call at the very
beginning to make it look like
racial profiling, and everyone
seems to have jumped on that
bandwagon. This didn't have to be
about race. The fact that it
became about race shows a large
element of systemic racism in our
media and in many other areas,
including in political circles.
I've seen nothing to make me think
that Zimmerman targeted Martin
because he was black. Because he
was suspicious, sure. Because he
was a teenager, maybe. But not
because of his race.<br>
<br>
I also object, in a nice,
non-confrontational way, with your
characterization of people posting
here about the "rightness of the
death of a boy at the hands of a
vigilante". I have never said
that Trayvon Martin should have
died, nor have I expressed an
opinion about whether or not I
would think that a good thing. I
haven't seen anyone else do so,
either. I've just been trying to
express why I think the jury's
verdict made sense, and to counter
the "white guy stalks and guns
down an innocent black teenager"
meme that, based on the evidence,
seems to be made out of whole
cloth.<br>
<br>
I do think that Martin should not
have attacked Zimmerman, if that
is indeed what happened. The
evidence I've seen points that
way. I think it's tragic that he
died, especially since this whole
confrontation could have easily
been avoided by both Martin and
Zimmerman.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="">
<div style="">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1"> <font
face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span
style="">From:</span></b>
"<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com">rhayes@frontier.com</a>" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com">rhayes@frontier.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="">To:</span></b>
"<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>>
<br>
<b><span style="">Sent:</span></b>
Monday, July 22, 2013
10:43 AM<br>
<b><span style="">Subject:</span></b>
[Vision2020] systemic
injustice<br>
</font> </div>
<div
class="yiv0781227224ecxy_msg_container"><br>
<div
id="yiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277">
<div>
<div style="">
<div><span>To those
who insist on
posting the
rightness of the
death of a boy at
the hands of a
vigilante, I post
a soft spoken
message. And I
would remind you
that your words
may be hurtful...</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div>I live in a
bubble far removed
from the rest of the
country and my past.
When, as a young
man, I moved to
Moscow from just
north of the
Mason-Dixon line, I
was relieved to be
free from all the
issues of race. Yea,
I'm white.
Privileged by my
birth. As a kid,
race and ethnicity
were overwhelming to
me. Italians hated
the Irish, Poles
were disliked and
distrusted by almost
everyone. The blacks
didn't like whites
in general. Whites
distrusted blacks.
Everyone had names
for everyone <span
class="yiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277mark"
id="yiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277misspell-0">else's</span>
ethnicity. Whops,
spics, <span
class="yiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277mark"
id="yiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277misspell-1">hunkies</span>, kikes,
hillbillies... the
list of
derogatory names
goes on and on. </div>
<div><span>I was
despised because
of being sometimes
Irish, sometimes a
sort of <span
id="yiv0781227224ecxyiv4732805277misspell-2">Polack.</span>
I learned to run
and run fast to
keep from being
beaten up by what
ever group that
happened to cross
my path. However,
I didn't
see/understand
systemic racism
until our Boy
Scout troop tried
to go swimming in
the CITY pool.
They stopped us
because we were
an integrated
troop. Being young
I never stopped to
think why
there never
were black kids in
the pool...EVER.
The man that
stopped us was a
"greasy" (another
derogatory
slur)Greek with
kinky hair and a
pretty dark
complexion. He
stopped Jerome
with his arm
saying, "Not
You!" Our scout
master must have
known what he was
up to, and to this
day I hold him in
high esteem as a
brave and
principled man.
And when
that Greek guy
stopped him from
entering the
locker, I looked
at Jerome,
and maybe for the
first time saw
him as a black
kid with whom I
had camped, sang,
cooked dinners,
and saw what his
life entailed. It
was much more than
name calling,
being hated,
distrusted. It was
a system of
hatred. </span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>Back to the
bubble thing...</span></div>
<div>So I moved here
and left ethnicity
and race issues
behind. Well, not
really. It isn't so
much an issue here
because the
majority, the vast
majority of people
are white, like me.
It is inevitable
that this will
change. It is
already changing and
changing rapidly.
How will this area
deal with race and
ethnicity? There are
hate groups and
hateful people
conveniently located
nearby. We need to
be vigilant with our
communities, and
with ourselves. It
is convenient to be
blind to the hatred
surrounding us. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I suppose one
good thing that the
so called "jury" in
Florida proved is
that SYSTEMIC racism
still exists. I
sometimes forget
that. I live in a
bubble. Now I am
reminded, but should
a young man's life
be sacrificed so
that I would again
see? People who deny
that injustice
exists live in a
state of blind
shame. <br>
</div>
<div style="">
<div style="">
<div dir="ltr"> <font
face="Arial"
size="2"> </font></div>
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</div>
</div>
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