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<DIV><FONT face=Garamond>At the risk of flogging a dead unicorn on the
discussion of culpability and justice (except to say that the statements I've
heard which reduce to "a jury found him innocent, so he must be" are
incredibly and unforgivably naive,) here's another take or perspective on the
event. ~Three minutes. I'm not endorsing; just throwing it out
there.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Garamond></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Garamond>Warren Hayman</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Garamond></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Garamond></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Garamond><A
href="http://www.upworthy.com/a-perspective-on-george-zimmerman-that-every-person-should-hear?c=ufb1">http://www.upworthy.com/a-perspective-on-george-zimmerman-that-every-person-should-hear?c=ufb1</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=godshatter@yahoo.com href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul
Rumelhart</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=philosopher.joe@gmail.com
href="mailto:joe@gmail. com">philosopher joe@gmail. com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow com">vision2020@moscow com</A> ; <A
title=siyocreo@live.com href="mailto:siyocreo@live com">siyocreo@live com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 18, 2013 8:12
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020
Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>
<P dir=ltr>I don't know about you, but when no one knows the truth I
don't like to make up scenarios that get this guy death threats without
actual evidence. It appears to me to be irresponsible.</P>
<P dir=ltr>Paul</P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<DIV id=_origMsg_>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 0.9em">
<HR SIZE=1>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN> </B>Joe Campbell <<A
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</A>>;
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN> </B>Paul Rumelhart <<A
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</A>>; <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN> </B>Scott Dredge <<A
href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>>; Keely
Emerine-Mix <<A href="mailto:siyocreo@live.com">siyocreo@live.com</A>>;
Gary Crabtree <<A
href="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com">moscowlocksmith@gmail.com</A>>; viz
<<A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>>;
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN> </B>Re: [Vision2020]
Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95 <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN> </B>Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:56:31 PM
<BR></DIV><BR>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Paul,<BR><BR>Anything is possible. It is possible that you are in
the Matrix world. <BR><BR></DIV>What I don't understand is why you let
loose the possibilities when it affects your beliefs but you hold them
tight when it goes against those beliefs.<BR><BR></DIV>In truth, I can
understand your point. I'm not trying to condemn Zimmerman. He was naive
and because of that got caught up in an unfortunate situation. But let's
be fair about this situation. A young man, perhaps aggressive (unlike
most young men?!?) but nonetheless walking in his neighborhood was
stalked and shot and killed.<BR><BR></DIV>You pretend to be in favor of
freedom but if a black man is not free to walk around in his own
neighborhood without being stalked and then shot then WTF. Freedom
doesn't mean squat.<BR><BR></DIV>Best, Joe<BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Paul Rumelhart
<SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">This
is what I don't get. You write "There should have been more
evidence and why there wasn't is a story that, in part, touches on
institutional racism." Isn't it possible that they didn't have
more evidence of second degree murder because it simply didn't exist,
and that your preconceived notions about him are wrong? One
could even call them "racist", because if the evidence doesn't
actually exist you are assuming that it is there because you are
assuming he was targeting blacks. That's called reaching a
conclusion before all the facts are in.<BR><BR>You also write "Not to
mention that Zimmerman likely would not have been following around a
white kid who lived in the neighborhood." How could you possibly
know this? Hell, Zimmerman didn't even self-identify as
"white". Wouldn't he, in his gung-ho neighborhood watch kind of
way, be targeting anyone he didn't know? I've seen no evidence
that Zimmerman was motivated even partly by race in this, but I see it
assumed all over the damned place. To the tune of credible death
threats to both himself and his parents.<BR><BR>The guy was found not
guilty in a court of law. Shouldn't that be the end of it?<SPAN
class=HOEnZb><FONT color=#888888><BR><BR>Paul<BR></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV class="hm HOEnZb">
<DIV><SPAN><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV class="hm HOEnZb"></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV class="hm HOEnZb"></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV class="hm HOEnZb">
<HR SIZE=1>
</DIV><FONT face=Arial>
<DIV class="hm HOEnZb"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Joe Campbell <<A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Scott Dredge <<A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Paul Rumelhart
<<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</A>>;
Keely Emerine-Mix <<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:siyocreo@live.com">siyocreo@live.com</A>>; Gary
Crabtree <<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com">moscowlocksmith@gmail.com</A>>;
viz <<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, July
18, 2013 2:59 PM</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Vision2020]
Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95<BR></DIV></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>
<DIV>I appreciate your contributions on this, Scott. <BR><BR>What
Roger is missing in the previous post is that I'm not condemning the
jurors. I think there was a failure in the justice system -- broadly
construed -- that was essentially racist, if we want to be honest
about it. But I don't think the failure was with the verdict. Given
the laws, given the evidence, likely the verdict was
correct.<BR><BR></DIV>And here is a positive thing about all this --
that I think you'll like too, Scott: the justice system -- narrowly
construed -- for all its criticisms, might be just fine; given the
evidence, they made the right decision. There should have been more
evidence and why there wasn't is a story that, in part, touches on
institutional racism.<BR><BR></DIV>Not to mention that Zimmerman
likely would not have been following around a white kid who lived in
the neighborhood.<BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV>On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Scott Dredge <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>My Tuesday morning quarterback analysis of this would
be that in the heat of the moment neither Zimmerman nor Martin were
thinking rationally. I disagree with Gary about 'Martin's
decision' but wouldn't call that opinion 'stupid'. My guess is
that Martin eventually went into 'fight or flight' type of mindset
once he realized he was being tracked. He's only 17 years old,
he wouldn't have much real world experience in diffusing
confrontations. Once this kind of situation escalated to the point
where there both scrapping, I'd expect adrenaline rushes and
survival instincts to be kicking in with both of them. They
were fighting. All bets are off at this point with the edge
going to Zimmerman since he would was aware that he was in
possession of a gun.<BR><BR>-Scott<BR><BR>
<DIV>
<HR>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:06:11 -0700<BR>From: <A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</A><BR>To:
<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:siyocreo@live.com">siyocreo@live.com</A>; <A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com">moscowlocksmith@gmail.com</A>;
<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</A><BR>CC:
<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>
<DIV><BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue
95<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I
don't see where you are coming from, Keely. You are responding
to this paragraph, right?<BR><BR>"Poor decisions were made by both
Zimmerman and Martin. Zimmerman's decisions may have been ill
considered (following on foot if that is in fact what he did) but
legal. Martin's decision to leap out of the bushes and assault a
stranger instead of simply continuing on the seventy yard to his
fathers girlfriends home was not."<BR><BR>Where is the intellectual
dishonesty? Why do you think this analysis is
"stupid"?<BR><BR>Someone leaving their vehicle and walking down a
sidewalk behind someone else is not, in fact, illegal. Neither
is following him in an SUV while talking to the police. It was
probably not a brilliant idea on Zimmerman's part, but not
illegal. If Zimmerman's account is correct, Martin confronted
him, knocked him to the ground with a punch to the nose, and
continued to beat his head into the pavement for about a
minute. We don't know for certain, of course, that what
Zimmerman says is true, but it seems to be supported by the
evidence. He had a broken nose, cuts on the back of his head,
and bruises on his face. When the police played an audio
recording of the screams during the event for Martin's father, he
was asked if he thought it was his son screaming. He replied
"no". When they played the recording for Zimmerman's father,
he replied that he thought it was his son and that he sounded like
he was screaming for his life.<BR><BR>Confronting someone and
knocking him to the ground and then pummeling him with blows crosses
a definite line. Zimmerman claims that he was trying to move
back off the concrete when Martin saw his gun. He then
allegedly told Zimmerman that he was "going to die tonight".
That's when he shot him.<BR><BR>As I said before, it appears that
the "white guy stalks and then guns down a defenseless black child"
meme doesn't fit this case. Martin could have avoided a
confrontation simply by continuing to walk home to his dad's
girlfriend's place. I agree with the jury that there was no
evidence for second degree murder, certainly not beyond a reasonable
doubt.<BR><BR>Just forget how the media wants to portray this event,
and think about this possible scenario:<BR><BR>Zimmerman is tired of
a spate of recent burglaries in his community, and wants to do
something about it. He joins the local neighborhood
watch. He does what you should do on the neighborhood watch,
he phones anything he sees as suspicious in to the
police.<BR><BR>Now comes the night in question. He sees a
teenager walking through the neighborhood in the rain in the dark
wearing black clothes and a black hoodie that covers his face.
He does what he has always done at this point, he calls it in.
He follows him to keep tabs on where he is until the police get
there. When they ask him his location, he can't tell them
precisely. Maybe because it's dark and rainy outside and he
hasn't been paying attention to his exact location as he tries to
keep him in sight. So he gets out of his SUV, walks down the
block until he can see a street sign, and then starts to walk back
to his vehicle. He is then confronted by Martin, a
confrontation he tries to avoid, and he gets attacked. He's on
the ground, Martin is straddling him, punching him in the face and
causing his head to get smashed into the sidewalk. Zimmerman,
still trying to get away rather than fight, tries to scooch back to
the grass so that his head isn't getting smashed into the concrete
anymore. In doing so, his clothes get disheveled and his
concealed weapon shows. Martin threatens his life, and
Zimmerman (probably fearing that he's going to go for his gun)
shoots him.<BR><BR>The police arrive, do a little investigating, and
determine that there is no case for further charges that they think
could stick, so they let him go. The resulting media frenzy
ensues, and he now has a $10,000 reward on his life courtesy of the
New Black Panthers. Spike Lee, thinking he knew where he was
staying, tweets his location only to send the elderly couple that
lived there fleeing for their lives. Zimmerman is in hiding,
can't go to work, and fears for his life on a daily basis. The
police, shamed in public by basically everyone, bring charges after
all. People all across the country think he stalked the poor
kid and shot him, when he was just trying to find out exactly where
he was. <BR><BR>Now he is acquitted at trial, and people still
think he's some kind of wannabee serial killer of small black
children or something. People like Saundra call him a
"monster". Rallies are held around the country, some of them
quite violent.<BR><BR>This is Zimmerman's story, which is routinely
tossed aside by those who wish to follow the media's take on
things. From my perspective, it's at least as plausible as the
story of him being racially motivated to gun that kid down. It
appears to be consistent with the evidence. It's a story that
comes directly from the only living witness to the event.<BR><BR>Do
I know what happened, exactly, that night? No, I don't.
But neither does anyone else save Zimmerman himself.
<BR><BR>Paul<BR>
<DIV><SPAN><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<HR SIZE=1>
<FONT face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
Keely Emerine-Mix <<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:siyocreo@live.com">siyocreo@live.com</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Gary Crabtree <<A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com">moscowlocksmith@gmail.com</A>>;
Joe Campbell <<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</A>>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> "<A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>"
<<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday,
July 18, 2013 10:51 AM
<DIV><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue
95<BR></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt" face=Tahoma>I'm going to
briefly abandon my attempts to civil and thoughtful for a moment and
say, Gary, the only thing that I can muster in regard to your final
paragraph:<BR><BR>That's the most bizarre, facile, intellectually
dishonest and frankly stupid analysis of this whole travesty I've
ever heard. <BR><BR>Keely<BR></FONT><BR><BR><BR><A
href="http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com/" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>www.keely-prevailingwinds.com</A><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV>
<HR>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 06:51:51 -0700
<DIV><BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue
95<BR></DIV>From: <A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com">moscowlocksmith@gmail.com</A><BR>To:
<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</A><BR>CC:
<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen@turbonet.com</A>; <A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>; <A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:siyocreo@live.com">siyocreo@live.com</A><BR><BR>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>I very strongly suspect that the likelihood of being jumped and
beaten by one of the local seventeen year <SPAN>olds</SPAN>
would be vanishingly small to the point that to bet otherwise
would be to throw away cash.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have to imagine that it's fun for some to endlessly bang away
at the "stalked the poor child" narrative but, an equally valid
perspective would be that Zimmerman was performing a public service
to his community by being involved in a neighborhood watch program
and was in no way attempting to be surreptitious or covert in his
attention to Martin's presence.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Poor decisions were made by both Zimmerman and Martin.
Zimmerman's decisions may have been ill considered (following on
foot if that is in fact what he did) but legal. Martin's decision to
leap out of the bushes and assault a stranger instead of simply
continuing on the seventy yard to his fathers girlfriends home was
not.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>g</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Joe Campbell <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"><DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>The best point to make is not that Zimmerman was racist, or
that the jurors were racist. There is no basis for either
assertion.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>That doesn't mean the case isn't symptomatic of a kind of
persistent institutionalized racism. You say first reports were
that Zimmerman attacked an unarmed kid. But that report turned out
to be false.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>How is it false? He was 17 and unarmed. Say what you want but
Zimmerman stalked then shot and killed an unarmed 17-year-old boy
who was merely walking around his own neighborhood. How could you
not feel outrage? </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Why don't you drive around the streets of Moscow and follow
all the 17-year-old kids you see. See what happens. There seems to
be a kind of wreckless negligence on the part of Zimmerman, if
nothing else.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Jul 17, 2013, at 6:27 PM, lfalen <<A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen@turbonet.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>Just a few comments.</DIV>
<DIV>From the first reports out it appeared that Zimmerman had
unjustly attacked and unarmed kid. A picture was shown of a 12
year old Trayvon. This report turned out to be false.
Ziommerman is not a monster or a saint. He was a mentor for
black kids and he took a black girl to the prom. He obviously is
not a racist. This was an unfortunate event where both have some
responsibility. We are a nation of laws. On the bases of the
evidence, the jury had no choice but to acquit. There have been
many cases where whites has have killed blacks due to racial
hatred and they should have been executed for it. Just two
example are Emmett Till and the three Civil Rights
workers. This case is entirely different.</DIV>
<DIV>Roger</DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 1em; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<HR SIZE=1>
-----Original Message-----<BR>From: "Paul Rumelhart" <<A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</A>><BR>To:
"Saundra Lund" <<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm">v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm</A>><BR>Cc:
<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>,
"Keely Emerine-Mix" <<A href="javascript:return"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:siyocreo@live.com">siyocreo@live.com</A>><BR>Date:
07/15/13 18:29<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest,
Vol 85, Issue 95<BR><BR>
<DIV>A few points.<BR><BR>On 07/15/2013 05:36 PM, Saundra Lund
wrote:<BR> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">No, Paul –
<B>you</B> are missing the point. Make as many excuses
about Zimmerman’s “recklessness” as you want, but that
doesn’t change the <B>fact</B> that an innocent child who
was doing <B>nothing wrong</B> is now dead because <B>he</B>
(Trayvon) decided to exercise <B>his</B> right to defind
<B>himself</B> against the deadly menace named George
Zimmerman.</SPAN></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Make no
mistake about it: Zimmerman was <B>stalking</B> this
child the way a cat stalks a
bird.</SPAN></DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>In Zimmerman's
version of events, he was trying to keep tabs on him until the
police got there.<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">And, make no
mistake about it: Trayvon Martin’s death was
unjust. It is <B>absolutely unjust</B> when an
innocent child doing not a thing in the world wrong winds up
dead because a nut with an indisputable chip on his shoulder
has a gun, and the injustice is further magnified when the
killer escapes
punishment.</SPAN></DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>He was
acquitted in a court of law, because there wasn't enough
evidence to convict him. So what do you propose?
Throw the rule of law aside for this one case where you're
sure he's guilty somehow?<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Trayvon had
every right to “stand his ground” against a gun-carrying
whacko who had already been told by LE <B>not</B> to follow
the victim. Any man, woman, or child of <B>any</B>
color with connected brain cells would feel threatened being
stalked at night by an unknown dangerous creep like
Zimmerman.</SPAN></DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Martin had
no way of knowing that Zimmerman had a gun, and didn't find
out until after he was fighting him.<BR><BR></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">And, if you
don’t Get why folks are rightly upset that a monster like
Zimmerman gets a free criminal pass for killing an innocent
child and why they want to organize a vigil – or millions of
vigils -- in Trayvon Martin’s honor, then I don’t know what
to say other than I pity you and your lack of
humanity.</SPAN></DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR>You have the nerve to call Zimmerman a "monster", and
berate me for being subjective at the same time? And why
do you always assume that if I disagree with you that I "lack
humanity"? I know myself, and could give a crap if you
know how much "humanity" I have.<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Finally, why
don’t you just give it a rest? Your biased explanation
of why you felt the verdict was just was fine & mildly
interesting, even though you included a lot of subjective
speculation supporting your bias I guess you hoped we’d miss
(LOL – too bad for you, I didn’t miss your selective
subjectivity).</SPAN></DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV><BR>I'm getting the idea that "bias" means "disagrees
with Saundra", but I could be wrong.<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">But, how
about losing the arrogance that makes you think causes you
don’t care about aren’t worthy, and how about losing the
hubris that makes you think it appropriate to tell others
where they should be directing their energies? If you
want to organize or get out there & protest for your
list of causes, have at it! No one is stopping you or
suggesting you should be directing your focus
elsewhere.</SPAN></DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Just
trying to inject a little rationality into what appears to be
yet another witch hunt. A pastime I find enjoyable
sometimes.<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Why, then,
you do feel the need to chide others who <B>do</B> care –
and care deeply – about the completely preventable tragic
death of an innocent child at the hands of a lunatic
vigilante?</SPAN></DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That death
could have been prevented two ways. Zimmerman could have
left him alone after he'd done his job, and Martin could have
not fought him. It's one of those real-life thingys
where it's never as black and white (no pun intended) as
people would like to believe.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Saundra</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: rgb(181,196,223) 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B> <SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A href="javascript:return"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</A>
[<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of</B> Paul Rumelhart<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday,
July 15, 2013 1:37 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Keely Emerine-Mix; <A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue
95</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN>The problem as I see
it, Keely, is that you want it to be an injustice. You
want it to be about the innocent black kid that was gunned
down by the armed white man for no reason other than he was
black. Facts to the contrary be damned. It's a
nice story, but just remember that that's what it is: a
story.<BR><BR>Paul</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; BACKGROUND: white"
align=center>
<HR align=center SIZE=1 width="100%">
</DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B> <SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Keely Emerine-Mix <A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:siyocreo@live.com"><siyocreo@live.com></A><BR><B>To:</B>
<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">"vision2020@moscow.com"</A>
<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><vision2020@moscow.com></A><BR><B>Sent:</B>
Monday, July 15, 2013 1:10 PM<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue
95</SPAN></DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Tom, be there Friday at 6, tell
everyone you know, bring whatever microphone you can, and
I'll see you there. I don't care how many people show
up. I care very much that I myself not be silent in
the face of such an
injustice.<BR><BR>Keely<BR></SPAN><SPAN><BR><BR><BR><A
href="http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com/" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>www.keely-prevailingwinds.com</A><BR><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN>> From: <A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com">vision2020-request@moscow.com</A><BR>>
Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95<BR>> To: <A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 11:44:08 -0700<BR>><BR>> Send
Vision2020 mailing list submissions to<BR>> <A
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
specific<BR>> than "Re: Contents of Vision2020
digest..."<BR>><BR>><BR>> Today's
Topics:<BR>><BR>> 1. Re: Trayvon Martin rally? (Tom
Hansen)<BR>> 2. Re: Trayvon Martin rally? (Scott
Dredge)<BR>> 3. Re: Trayvon Martin rally? (Paul
Rumelhart)<BR>><BR>><BR>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>><BR>>
Message: 1<BR>> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 11:28:21
-0700<BR>> From: Tom Hansen <A href="javascript:return"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"><thansen@moscow.com></A><BR>>
To: Keely Emerine-Mix <A href="javascript:return"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:siyocreo@live.com"><siyocreo@live.com></A><BR>>
Cc: <A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">"vision2020@moscow.com"</A>
<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><vision2020@moscow.com></A>,
Jeanne McHale<BR>> <A href="javascript:return"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:jeannemchale@hotmail.com"><jeannemchale@hotmail.com></A>,
Fritz Knorr <A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:fritzknorr@gmail.com"><fritzknorr@gmail.com></A>,
LGBTQA<BR>> Office <A href="javascript:return"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:lgbtoffice@uidaho.edu"><lgbtoffice@uidaho.edu></A>,
"UI Human Rights, Access & Inclusion"<BR>> <A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:csuarez@uidaho.edu"><csuarez@uidaho.edu></A><BR>>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trayvon Martin rally?<BR>>
Message-ID: <A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:21BCEC70-D46E-4829-B922-24FA74223826@moscow.com"><21BCEC70-D46E-4829-B922-24FA74223826@moscow.com></A><BR>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<BR>><BR>>
I am with you 1,000,000,000 . . . %, Keely.<BR>><BR>>
Please let me know what I, or Moscow Cares, can do to make
this rally a reality, and consider it done.<BR>><BR>>
Come on, V-Peeps. GIVE A DAMN !<BR>><BR>> Seeya 'round
town, Moscow, because . . .<BR>><BR>> "Moscow Cares"
(the most fun you can have with your pants on)<BR>> <A
href="http://www.moscowcares.com/" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.MoscowCares.com</A><BR>><BR>>
Tom Hansen<BR>> Moscow, Idaho<BR>><BR>> "There's
room at the top they are telling you still<BR>> But first
you must learn how to smile as you kill<BR>> If you want
to be like the folks on the hill."<BR>><BR>> - John
Lennon<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> On Jul 15, 2013, at
11:18 AM, Keely Emerine-Mix <A href="javascript:return"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:siyocreo@live.com"><siyocreo@live.com></A>
wrote:<BR>><BR>> > Visionaires,<BR>>
><BR>> > I've been out of town for two weeks so I
don't know if there's a rally or anything scheduled on the
Palouse in support of the Trayvon Martin family and to
express outrage at the verdict. If not, I'd suggest 6 p.m.
Friday at Friendship Square. Please either inform me of
something previously planned, or pass this around. I'd be
willing to speak and I know others of you would,
too.<BR>> ><BR>> > This saddens and angers me
beyond measure. We have to speak out.<BR>> ><BR>>
> Love,<BR>> > Keely<BR>> ><BR>>
><BR>> ><BR>> > <A
href="http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com/" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>www.keely-prevailingwinds.com</A><BR>> >
=======================================================<BR>>
> List services made available by First Step
Internet,<BR>> > serving the communities of the
Palouse since 1994.<BR>> > <A
href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>> > <A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>>
>
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------------------------------<BR>><BR>> Message:
2<BR>> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 12:31:27 -0600<BR>>
From: Scott Dredge <A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com"><scooterd408@hotmail.com></A><BR>>
To: Keely Emerine-Mix <A href="javascript:return"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:siyocreo@live.com"><siyocreo@live.com></A>,
viz <A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><vision2020@moscow.com></A><BR>>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trayvon Martin rally?<BR>>
Message-ID: <A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:BLU175-W9CE824D6AE4D362F4DE8BE4670@phx.gbl"><BLU175-W9CE824D6AE4D362F4DE8BE4670@phx.gbl></A><BR>>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>><BR>> What would be the
point? It was very controversial to bring George Zimmerman
to trial in the first place. He was acquitted. Not even a
hung jury. Outright full acquittal.<BR>><BR>> I hate
sounding like a broken record but for whatever reason I
can't seem to get a basic point across that ***we do not
have system of mob rule***. If we did, Zimmerman would have
already been lynched without due process long ago. Would
that be less of an outrage?<BR>><BR>>
-Scott<BR>><BR>> From: <A href="javascript:return"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:siyocreo@live.com">siyocreo@live.com</A><BR>>
To: <A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 11:18:06 -0700<BR>> Subject:
[Vision2020] Trayvon Martin
rally?<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
Visionaires,<BR>><BR>> I've been out of town for two
weeks so I don't know if there's a rally or anything
scheduled on the Palouse in support of the Trayvon Martin
family and to express outrage at the verdict. If not, I'd
suggest 6 p.m. Friday at Friendship Square. Please either
inform me of something previously planned, or pass this
around. I'd be willing to speak and I know others of you
would, too.<BR>><BR>> This saddens and angers me
beyond measure. We have to speak out.<BR>><BR>>
Love,<BR>> Keely<BR>><BR>><BR>> <A
href="http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com/" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>www.keely-prevailingwinds.com</A><BR>><BR>><BR>>
=======================================================<BR>>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>>
<A href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>> <A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
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------------------------------<BR>><BR>> Message:
3<BR>> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 11:44:05 -0700
(PDT)<BR>> From: Paul Rumelhart <A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"><godshatter@yahoo.com></A><BR>>
To: Keely Emerine-Mix <A href="javascript:return"
rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:siyocreo@live.com"><siyocreo@live.com></A>,
<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">"vision2020@moscow.com"</A><BR>>
<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><vision2020@moscow.com></A><BR>>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trayvon Martin rally?<BR>>
Message-ID:<BR>> <A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:1373913845.39333.YahooMailNeo@web163602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"><1373913845.39333.YahooMailNeo@web163602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com></A><BR>>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>><BR>> Keely,<BR>><BR>>
Did you look at the evidence?? I don't see how the jury
could have done any differently.? Zimmerman was using the
"self-defense" defense, and there was enough evidence of
that to provide reasonable doubt (his injuries, the witness
who saw the guy in the white sweater beating on the guy in
the red sweater, the inability to determine who was shouting
for help).? According to Zimmerman, Martin saw his weapon
and they fought for it and Zimmerman ended up shooting him
in the chest.? Since Martin isn't around to give his side of
events (conveniently, I know) and since there is no evidence
to disprove this, they pretty much had to acquit.? In my
opinion, of course.? To prove second degree murder, they
would have to disprove the self-defense defense and show
that he was unhinged enough to take this opportunity to go
kill Martin.? I haven't seen any evidence of that,
either.<BR>><BR>><BR>> The media has worked hard to
make this about race, but there was no indication I saw that
Zimmerman was racially motivated.? If anything, Martin was
the one framing everything by race.? NBC had to resort to
editing the 9-1-1 tape to make it look like it was racially
motivated, but the real 9-1-1 tape doesn't appear to show
this (at least what I've heard of
it).?<BR>><BR>><BR>> If you want to get out there
and protest something, I recommend protesting what NBC did
when editing the 9-1-1 tape in an attempt to ignite racial
tensions.? Or protest what the NSA has been doing.? Or
protest the drone strikes or the secret courts or the secret
reasoning for gathering information on everyone that can't
be revealed.? Or protest how the US is going after Snowden
so hard instead of cleaning house.?<BR>><BR>><BR>>
Don't be distracted by this media circus.<BR>><BR>>
Paul<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
________________________________<BR>> From: Keely
Emerine-Mix <A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:siyocreo@live.com"><siyocreo@live.com></A><BR>>
To: <A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">"vision2020@moscow.com"</A>
<A href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><vision2020@moscow.com></A><BR>>
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 11:18 AM<BR>> Subject:
[Vision2020] Trayvon Martin
rally?<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
Visionaires,<BR>><BR>> I've been out of town for two
weeks so I don't know if there's a rally or anything
scheduled on the Palouse in support of the Trayvon Martin
family and to express outrage at the verdict.? If not, I'd
suggest 6 p.m. Friday at Friendship Square.? Please either
inform me of something previously planned, or pass this
around.? I'd be willing to speak and I know others of you
would, too.<BR>><BR>> This saddens and angers me
beyond measure.? We have to speak out.<BR>><BR>>
Love,<BR>> Keely<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> <A
href="http://www.keely-prevailingwinds.com/" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>www.keely-prevailingwinds.com</A><BR>><BR>>
=======================================================<BR>>
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serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> ?
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target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>> ? ? ? ? ? <A
href="javascript:return" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>>
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End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95<BR>>
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