<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4"><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4">Paul,</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4">And now it's coming out that there is a "legal" basis for the data mining in as much as the secret intelligence court has granted NSA/FBI court permission to do it.</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4">The problem with it is that the filings with the court are secret and the decision is secret. It boils down to just how much faith and trust does the individual have</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4">in the government?</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4">So, we have the "government" coming out against the 2nd Amendment, and saying: "trust us, WE know what's best". And we are collecting data (phone and internet records), secretly, with a secret courts secret permission, again, "Trust us, WE know what's best"............These are just two (2) examples. Where does it end?</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4">Yes, some of the career members of Congress will come out and say: "Well it prevented an attempted terrorist incident" that we know about, but that the incident was a secret and we can't tell you about it. "Trust us, WE know what's best".</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4"><br></font></div></font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: large; ">A government that cannot be trusted to do small things well can hardy be trusted to do large things well, especially to when those large things are conducted in almost total secrecy.</span><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4">And don't think all of this will go away. ALL of this will come back up in the next round of elections, and the people will tell Congress, go find new jobs, "Trust us, WE (the People) know best!"</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4">Wayne<br></font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4"><br></font></div><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4"><br></font></div><div><span style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-color: initial; outline-width: 0px; outline-style: initial; outline-color: initial; vertical-align: baseline; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: transparent; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial" size="4"><br></font>________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________<br></span><div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">The NSA request for data is for all metadata information on all calls in their database that involved a person in the US somewhere along the line. That violates the probable cause portion of the 4th amendment, as well as the constraint that they have to describe the exact items they are looking for. This would also apply to indiscriminately gathering data from content companies as their PRISM program is alleged to do.<br><br>Paul<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Scott Dredge <<a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> KRFP <<a href="mailto:krfp@radiofreemoscow.org">krfp@radiofreemoscow.org</a>>; viz <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, June 7, 2013 12:42 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S.
Internet companies in broad secret program<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv5832761677">
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<div><div dir="ltr">I don't think the ACLU will have much luck shutting down the widespread snooping based on the the 1st, 4th, or 5th amendments.<br><br>1st & 5th is non-starter. Is the specter of government data mining infringing on your right to free speech because you're intimidated that they might use it against you in a court of law and thus you feel you're forced to instead remain silent? Good luck with that.<br><br>The 4th isn't very strong here either. Illegal search is a stretch in my opinion, but it might be worth filing a law suit in hopes you can find a sympathetic judge as it the case works it way up to the supremes.<br><br>It'll all be worked out over time and maybe down the road specific data mining will only be allowed via a warrant.<br><br><div><hr id="yiv5832761677stopSpelling">Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2013 21:48:04 -0700<br>From: <a href="mailto:krfp@radiofreemoscow.org">krfp@radiofreemoscow.org</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] U.S.
intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies in broad secret program<br><br>
Yeah, and the First and the Fifth. Here again I have the rare
occurrence of agreeing with Paul.<br>
<br>
At this point (actually since 911) I am WAY more afraid of my own
government then any so called "terrorist". And I don't mind if they
know that, obviously, since I posted this. <br>
<br>
Dave<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="yiv5832761677ecxmoz-cite-prefix">On 6/6/2013 9:16 PM, Paul Rumelhart
wrote:<br>
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<blockquote>
<div class="yiv5832761677ecxmoz-cite-prefix"><br>
I'm talking about the 4th Amendment, mainly.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 06/06/2013 06:13 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr"><I'd rather have my rights.><br>
<br>
Could you be any less specific? If anyone's constitutional
rights are being trampled from this data mining then we
already have a system in place to roll back the worst abuses.<br>
<br>
<div>> Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2013 17:16:17 -0700<br>
> From: <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv5832761677ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><br>
> To: <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv5832761677ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
> Subject: [Vision2020] U.S. intelligence mining data
from nine U.S. Internet companies in broad secret program<br>
> <br>
> Here is the URL for a story from the Washington Post
about yet another <br>
> data mining warrantless wiretapping abuse.<br>
> <br>
>
<a rel="nofollow" class="yiv5832761677ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence-mining-data-from-nine-us-internet-companies-in-broad-secret">http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence-mining-data-from-nine-us-internet-companies-in-broad-secret</a>-<br>
>
program/2013/06/06/3a0c0da8-cebf-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story.html<br>
> <br>
> I fear that this is just the beginning of the
"revelations" to come. <br>
> It's been going on for years. I'm hoping that The
People will get so <br>
> mad about this that we can begin the process of rolling
back some of the <br>
> worst abuses that have taken place in order to "keep us
safe". Screw <br>
> safety. I'd rather have my rights.<br>
> <br>
> Paul<br>
> <br>
> =======================================================<br>
> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
> <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv5832761677ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://www.fsr.net/">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
> <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv5832761677ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
> =======================================================<br>
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List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<a rel="nofollow" class="yiv5832761677ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://www.fsr.net/">http://www.fsr.net</a>
<a rel="nofollow" class="yiv5832761677ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
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List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a>
<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
=======================================================</div> </div></div>
</div><br>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================<br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><br> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></body></html>