<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">Although I did not videotape the debate, Nick . . .</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">As a result of a group effort, I do have audio recordings (mp3 format) of the interaction on January 31, 2007.</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">Has it really been SIX YEARS?</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><img src="cid:/var/mobile/Applications/0AA70F42-B519-4CBB-AD6D-309E94E1B4F5/Documents/Doug_Wilson_Nick_Gier_Cover_00.jpg" width="900"></span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Part 1</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; white-space: nowrap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><a href="http://www.tomandrodna.com/debates/Doug_Wilson_Nick_Gier_013107_01.mp3">http://www.tomandrodna.com/debates/Doug_Wilson_Nick_Gier_013107_01.mp3</a></span></div><div><br></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Part 2</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; white-space: nowrap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><a href="http://www.tomandrodna.com/debates/Doug_Wilson_Nick_Gier_013107_02.mp3">http://www.tomandrodna.com/debates/Doug_Wilson_Nick_Gier_013107_02.mp3</a></span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Part 3</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; white-space: nowrap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><a href="http://www.tomandrodna.com/debates/Doug_Wilson_Nick_Gier_013107_03.mp3">http://www.tomandrodna.com/debates/Doug_Wilson_Nick_Gier_013107_03.mp3</a></span></div><div><br><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "> </div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><div>Tom Hansen</div><div>Moscow, Idaho</div><div><br></div><div>"<span style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">There's room at the top they are telling you still</span><span style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "> </span></div><span style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">But first you must learn how to smile as you kill </span><br style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><span style="font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><font size="3"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);"><br></span></font></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><font size="3"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);">- John Lennon<br></span></font><div> </div></div></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br>On Apr 4, 2013, at 10:42 AM, Nicholas Gier <<a href="mailto:ngier006@gmail.com">ngier006@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><div><div dir="ltr">Dear Judd,<div><br></div><div style="">I welcome you to the Vision, because I enjoyed debating Doug Wilson and his followers when they posted in this forum.</div><div style=""><br></div><div style="">I remember my last debate with Doug Wilson at the SUB five or six years ago late in January, and 15 minutes before the event was to end, and right in the middle of my rebuttal of Wilson's comments (all civil; Tom videotaped it), the moderator stopped the proceedings. I objected, saying that there was still time and that the UI would certainly allow us to go later if needed, but the moderator insisted that the dialogue end. </div>
<div style=""><br></div><div style="">I still want to know why that happened. Perhaps it was because I was pressing Wilson too hard on the "principle" that is OK to lie and deceive to defend the faith. Doug and I started our exchange on the Bible story of Rahab's lie (Jos. 2). No one listening to the exchange could say that I was intolerant, mean, or uncivil. All that I can conclude is that the student moderator thought that his hero was losing the debate.</div>
<div style=""><br></div><div style="">There is no time limit on the Vision: most of us will be here until we draw our last breath. Why did Wilson and Co. leave? Was it because they simply could not defend their views? Yes, the Vision becomes heated at times, but that is because of the passion that drives all of us who wish to express our views.</div>
<div style=""><br></div><div style="">I don't think that it is premature to make some judgments about you. You say that Wilson and Bouma are "good men," but, since I debated Wilson about abortion in the early 1990s, I have found that he is intellectually dishonest and no one should trust him in a debate. This, I submit, is not a good quality. He has also attacked members of his own congregation (including an expert on the Civil War in his Seattle mission church) and shunned those who do not agree with him. Generally,he has attacked and ridiculed most of the evangelical churches in America. His vitriol is extreme and nauseating. For more see all my articles on Wilson at <a href="http://www.home.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/Wilson.htm">http://www.home.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/Wilson.htm</a>.</div>
<div style=""><br></div><div style="">Bouma has led an attack on a very conservative Moscow Republican and has used hateful language against all so-called "moderate" Republicans and those who support equal rights. That of course does not show very good character. At least that is what most reasonable people would believe.</div>
<div style=""><br></div><div style="">So, Judd, don't leave us like the others did. Stay and give us some reasons to believe that Wilson and Bouma are good men. I think they are a very bad influence on our community, and they violate all the rules that you wish to uphold.</div>
<div style=""><br></div><div style="">I challenge you to convince us otherwise.</div><div style=""><br></div><div style="">Proud to be an Intolerista, because it is a virtue to reject arrogance, deceit, dishonesty, and shameful/juvenile behavior.</div>
<div style=""><br></div><div style="">Respectfully,</div><div style=""><br></div><div style="">Nick</div><div style=""><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Tom Hansen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" target="_blank">thansen@moscow.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>Hatred is a human emotion, Mr. Wilson; a human emotion we all possess (even you, as reflected on your website).</div>
<div><br></div><div>Let me rephrase my statement . . .</div><div><br></div><div>I do not hate you personally. I hate the bigoted culture you so proudly display on your website.</div><div><br></div><div>I choose not to tolerate such bigotry, Mr. Wilson, but to expose it. This I will do as long as I am humanly able.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I have NEVER said that you are not accepted here on Vision 2020 and I never will. Vision 2020 is a public forum in which we discuss topics that impact our neighborhoods, community, state, and nation.</div>
<div><br></div><div>If you find my freely expressed opinion not to your liking, so be it.</div><div><br><div>Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .</div><div><br></div><div>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)</div>
<div><a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></div><div> </div><div><div>Tom Hansen</div><div>Moscow, Idaho</div><div><br></div><div>"<span style="font-size:medium">There's room at the top they are telling you still</span><span style="font-size:medium"> </span></div>
<span style="font-size:medium">But first you must learn how to smile as you kill </span><br style="font-size:medium"><span style="font-size:medium">If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span></div><div><font size="3"><span><br>
</span></font></div><div><font size="3"><span>- John Lennon<br></span></font><div> </div></div></div><div><div class="h5"><div><br>On Apr 4, 2013, at 8:39 AM, "Judd A. Wilson" <<a href="mailto:judd_allen_wilson@yahoo.com" target="_blank">judd_allen_wilson@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif"><div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:13px;margin-left:0px;font:normal normal normal 13px/normal Georgia;color:rgb(51,50,51)">
<i>Paul R - Great to meet another open-minded person in this town. Cheers.</i></div><div style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 13.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Georgia;color:#333233"><i>Art Deco/Wayne - I don't disavow either Doug Wilson or Gresham Bouma. They're both good men. </i></div>
<div style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 13.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Georgia;color:#333233"><i>Rosemary - It's a blog template. I blog as a hobby when I have the time. Don't read too much into my font selection. And when I went to the council in December, I didn't ask them for an ordinance. I asked them for the same treatment regarding hateful billboards that they'd afford other demographic groups, such as homosexuals. I expect progressives/liberals to play by their own rules. But they let me down then just as you have now.</i></div>
<div style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 13.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Georgia;color:#333233"><i>Tom - You supported an anti-discrimination ordinance because it supposedly does away with hatred and bigotry. And yet you have openly stated that you hate me. </i><span style="font-style:italic"><i>When I was still young I realized that the belief, "I'm not prejudiced...except against people that are prejudiced," didn't hold water. You should reconsider. </i></span><span style="font-style:italic"><i>And I don't hate you, for the record, or anyone else on this forum. Or anyone at all, anywhere. But you've treated me so ill that it's clear I'm not tolerated, included, or accepted here. With the exception of Paul, it's become clear that this isn't a forum for liberals or welcoming of Moscow community members at all. </i></span></div>
<div style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 13.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Georgia;color:#333233"><i>As for my quote about young, white, American males: thanks for reading and sharing. I stand by every word.</i></div>
<div style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 13.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Georgia;color:#333233"><span style="font-style:italic">For more, go to: <a href="http://juddwilson.com/2013/04/04/freedom-of-conscience-is-the-foundation-of-a-free-society-civil-discourse-is-the-glue-that-holds-it-together-2/" target="_blank">http://juddwilson.com/2013/04/04/freedom-of-conscience-is-the-foundation-of-a-free-society-civil-discourse-is-the-glue-that-holds-it-together-2/</a> </span><br>
</div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:13px;margin-left:0px;font:normal normal normal 13px/normal Georgia;color:rgb(51,50,51);font-size:13px;font-family:Georgia;background-color:transparent;font-style:italic">
<i>Respectfully,</i></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:13px;margin-left:0px;font:normal normal normal 13px/normal Georgia;color:rgb(51,50,51);font-size:13px;font-family:Georgia;background-color:transparent;font-style:italic">
<i>Judd Wilson</i></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:13px;margin-left:0px;font:normal normal normal 13px/normal Georgia;color:rgb(51,50,51);font-size:13px;font-family:Georgia;background-color:transparent;font-style:italic">
<i><a href="http://juddwilson.com" target="_blank">juddwilson.com</a> </i></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>=======================================================</span><br>
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