<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">As I learn more, my viewpoint changes to accommodate the new information. Something that others on this list might want to try out someday. By "injure the user", do you mean lighting off a weapon that will have an immediate "incinerate to atomic particles" radius of several miles? That's what I was talking about when I said that nuclear weapons should not be considered "arms" because you can't light one off without killing yourself and everything in the immediate vicinity, not to mention irradiating the area for hundreds of miles in every direction.<br><br>After reading more about the second amendment, I've come to the conclusion that the term "arms" was meant to cover what one citizen can use to defend themselves and their coutrymen in the advent of an insurrection or invasion, as a minimum. Also, your
average person should not need to demonstrate a need for a weapon, they have the inalienable right to keep and bear arms. The government is in the position where they need a really good reason to infringe upon that right, because it's stated pretty clear that they don't have that mandate.<br><br>An "assault weapon", as defined by the recent assault weapons ban attempt, is not much different from your typical semi-auto hunting rifle. AR-15s, for example, are used all the time as varmint guns, if you feel the owner of one somehow has to justify its purchase.<br><br>I don't get this split between what a police officer is allowed to carry and what you and I are allowed to carry. If the police need that level of firepower to protect themselves or to control a situation, why wouldn't I, should I ever have the misfortune of ending up in a bad situation like that?<br><br>Paul<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div> <div
style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com>; Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com>; Jeanne McHale <jeannemchale@hotmail.com>; Fritz Knorr <fritzknorr@gmail.com> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, March 22, 2013 9:18 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] SHAME ON U.S. ! ! !<br> </font> </div> <br>
<meta http-equiv="x-dns-prefetch-control" content="off"><div id="yiv1161409968"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:8pt;"><div style=""><span style="">Paul,</span></div>
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<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:transparent;FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-SIZE:11px;"><span style="">You even seem to have a changing definition of what "arms" means, and are <span id="yiv1161409968misspell-0">criticizing</span> others for not matching your own definition. There is no weapon that cannot also injure the user, be it a knife, gun, bomb, or <span id="yiv1161409968misspell-1"><span>missile</span></span>. It is the nature of the weapon, and the user. Guns misfire, operators make errors.</span></div>
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<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:transparent;FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-SIZE:11px;"><span style="">My belief is that people should be allowed to defend themselves from reasonable threats or expected threats. I think if a person can demonstrate a need for a weapon and competence with it, they should get it. If they can't demonstrate a need for a weapon, or competence with it they should not. Most mature law abiding people can easily demonstrate a need for a rifle (hunting) or handgun (protection of self and property from intruders). I don't think most people can demonstrate a need and <span id="yiv1161409968misspell-2"><span>competence</span></span> with an assault weapon, <span id="yiv1161409968misspell-3"><span>grenade</span></span>, <span id="yiv1161409968misspell-4"><span>flamethrower</span></span>, <span id="yiv1161409968misspell-5"><span>RP-Gs</span></span>, or nuclear
arms. </span></div>
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<div style=""><span style="">The problem with allowing anyone to have a weapon that police have is that they may not have the <span style="" id="yiv1161409968misspell-6"><span>competency</span></span> to use it as <span style="" id="yiv1161409968misspell-7"><span>proficiently</span></span> as highly selected and trained SWAT Teams, and may injure themselves and others attempting to <span style="" id="yiv1161409968misspell-8"><span>fulfill</span></span> that self-appointed role. It also always places the police officers trying to protect the public in a<var id="yiv1161409968yui-ie-cursor"></var> less armed and disadvantaged position then the those trying to harm them and <span style="" id="yiv1161409968misspell-0"><span>the</span></span> public if your <span style="" id="yiv1161409968misspell-9"><span>guarantee</span></span> them the minimum of what the police are allowed to carry.</span></div>
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<div style=""><span style="">Donovan J. Arnold</span></div>
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<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM:#ccc 1px solid;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;LINE-HEIGHT:0;MARGIN:5px 0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;HEIGHT:0px;FONT-SIZE:0px;BORDER-TOP:#ccc 1px solid;BORDER-RIGHT:#ccc 1px solid;PADDING-TOP:0px;" class="yiv1161409968hr"></div><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">From:</span></b> Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">To:</span></b> Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>; Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Cc:</span></b> Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com>; Jeanne McHale <jeannemchale@hotmail.com>; Fritz Knorr <fritzknorr@gmail.com> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, March 21, 2013 1:30 PM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] SHAME ON U.S. ! ! !<br></font></div><br>
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<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#fff;FONT-FAMILY:times new roman, new york, times, serif;COLOR:#000;FONT-SIZE:12pt;">I don't know what the definition of "arms" is in detail, but I imagine that weapons that you can't fire directly without killing yourself in the process can be ruled out.<br><br>The problem with the assault weapons ban was that the more a weapon looked like a weapon a militia might be able to realistically use, the more they wanted it banned.<br><br>Paul<br>
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<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM:#ccc 1px solid;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;LINE-HEIGHT:0;MARGIN:5px 0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;HEIGHT:0px;FONT-SIZE:0px;BORDER-TOP:#ccc 1px solid;BORDER-RIGHT:#ccc 1px solid;PADDING-TOP:0px;" class="yiv1161409968hr"></div><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">From:</span></b> Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">To:</span></b> Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com>; Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Cc:</span></b> Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com>; Jeanne McHale <jeannemchale@hotmail.com>; Fritz Knorr <fritzknorr@gmail.com> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:36 AM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] SHAME ON U.S. ! ! !<br></font></div><br>
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<div><span>Paul,</span></div>
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<div><span>Nuclear arms would be classified as "arms" ( I mean, its even in the name), upon which our rights to keep and bear them shall not be infringed, right? This is your logic?</span><span> </span></div>
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<div><span>Donovan J. Arnold</span></div>
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<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM:#ccc 1px solid;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;LINE-HEIGHT:0;MARGIN:5px 0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;HEIGHT:0px;FONT-SIZE:0px;BORDER-TOP:#ccc 1px solid;BORDER-RIGHT:#ccc 1px solid;PADDING-TOP:0px;" class="yiv1161409968hr"></div><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">From:</span></b> Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">To:</span></b> Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Cc:</span></b> Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com>; Jeanne McHale <jeannemchale@hotmail.com>; Fritz Knorr <fritzknorr@gmail.com> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:06 PM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] SHAME ON U.S. ! ! !<br></font></div><br>
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<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#fff;FONT-FAMILY:times new roman, new york, times, serif;COLOR:#000;FONT-SIZE:12pt;">Assault weapons would be classified as "arms", upon which our rights to keep and bear them shall not be infringed. <br><br>Paul<br>
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<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM:#ccc 1px solid;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;LINE-HEIGHT:0;MARGIN:5px 0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;HEIGHT:0px;FONT-SIZE:0px;BORDER-TOP:#ccc 1px solid;BORDER-RIGHT:#ccc 1px solid;PADDING-TOP:0px;" class="yiv1161409968hr"></div><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">From:</span></b> Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">To:</span></b> Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Cc:</span></b> Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com>; Jeanne McHale <jeannemchale@hotmail.com>; Fritz Knorr <fritzknorr@gmail.com> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, March 20, 2013 1:57 PM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] SHAME ON U.S. ! ! !<br></font></div><br>
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<div>Where, in the US Constitution, does it give the right for citizens to possess assault weapons?</div>
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<div>There are 2,000+ other arms available for a well organized militia to bear.<br><br>
<div><span id="yiv1161409968misspell-6" class="yiv1161409968mark"><span id="yiv1161409968misspell-13" class="yiv1161409968mark">Seeya</span></span> round town, Moscow, because . . .</div>
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<div>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)</div>
<div>http://www.MoscowCares.com</div>
<div> </div>
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<div>Tom Hansen</div>
<div>Moscow, Idaho</div>
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<div>"<span style="FONT-SIZE:medium;">There's room at the top they are telling you still</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:medium;"> </span></div><span style="FONT-SIZE:medium;">But first you must learn how to smile as you kill </span><br style="FONT-SIZE:medium;"><span style="FONT-SIZE:medium;">If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span></div>
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<div><font size="3"><span>- John Lennon<br></span></font>
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<div><br>On Mar 20, 2013, at 1:22 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div>
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<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#fff;FONT-FAMILY:times new roman, new york, times, serif;COLOR:#000;FONT-SIZE:12pt;">That's not an emotionally-derived argument at all.<br><br>It's that damn Constitution again. It keeps getting in the way.<br><br>Paul<br>
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<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM:#ccc 1px solid;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;LINE-HEIGHT:0;MARGIN:5px 0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;HEIGHT:0px;FONT-SIZE:0px;BORDER-TOP:#ccc 1px solid;BORDER-RIGHT:#ccc 1px solid;PADDING-TOP:0px;" class="yiv1161409968hr"></div><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">From:</span></b> Tom Hansen <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">To:</span></b> Moscow Vision 2020 <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Cc:</span></b> Jeanne McHale <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jeannemchale@hotmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jeannemchale@hotmail.com">jeannemchale@hotmail.com</a>>; Fritz Knorr <<a rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:fritzknorr@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:fritzknorr@gmail.com">fritzknorr@gmail.com</a>> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, March 20, 2013 11:29 AM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Vision2020] SHAME ON U.S. ! ! !<br></font></div><br>
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<div><31890_10151353150886275_1690173681_n.<span id="yiv1161409968misspell-10" class="yiv1161409968mark"><span id="yiv1161409968misspell-17" class="yiv1161409968mark">jpg</span></span>><br><br>
<div><span id="yiv1161409968misspell-11" class="yiv1161409968mark"><span id="yiv1161409968misspell-18" class="yiv1161409968mark">Seeya</span></span> round town, Moscow, because . . .</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)</div>
<div>http://www.moscowcares.com/</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>Tom Hansen</div>
<div>Moscow, Idaho</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>"<span style="FONT-SIZE:medium;">There's room at the top they are telling you still</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:medium;"> </span></div><span style="FONT-SIZE:medium;">But first you must learn how to smile as you kill </span><br style="FONT-SIZE:medium;"><span style="FONT-SIZE:medium;">If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span></div>
<div><font size="3"><span><br></span></font></div>
<div><font size="3"><span>- John Lennon<br></span></font>
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