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<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>I'm not sure what else I can take away. I have
heard that the topic is "complex" and that you don't wish to "confuse the
issue." What I have not heard is the slice of logic that would refute the
statement that so outraged Mr. Hansen and kicked off this thread. Perhaps I
wasn't paying proper attention. Please state for me clearly and without
obfuscation the argument in favor of homosexual marriage the can not be applied
equally to polygamous unions. An analogy as to why homosexual marriage doesn't
necessarily lead to polygamy is not at all the same thing. It seems to me that
without anyone being able to provide the example that differentiates between the
two, Wilson's "fallacious claim" stands without refute.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Calibri></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=philosopher.joe@gmail.com
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">Joe Campbell</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 02, 2013 6:12 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A
title="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">Gary Crabtree</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A
title="mailto:thansen@moscow.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom Hansen</A> ; <A
title="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul Rumelhart</A> ; <A
title="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Huh? Say WHAT!?</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>It pains me that I take my time to carefully spell out why I
don't think these are the same at all, legally etc., but your takeaway, Gary, is
that I add support to Wilson's fallacious claim.<BR><BR>An analogy similar to
one I used before: Saying that legalization of gay marriage will lead to
legalization of polygamy is like saying that sex with your wife will lead to an
orgy. I see no reason for thinking the one than for thinking the other. After
all, if you've got reasons for sex with one person WHY NOT sex with many? Just
the same reason over again, right? But even you can see the line here, Gary,
even though these issues are vague. And so can members of the Supreme Court when
it comes to differentiating between gay marriage and polygamy.<BR><BR>This says
nothing about my views on polygamy, and for a number of reasons I don't think it
is helpful to talk about polygamy while we're working on gay marriage -- for one
thing, though bad, slippery-slope arguments happen to be persuasive. My point is
I COULD hold that gay marriage is OK and polygamy is not and not be guilty of an
inconsistency because of it. This is a refutation of the Wilson claim.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 8:58 PM, Gary Crabtree <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"
target=_blank>jampot@roadrunner.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote><U></U>
<DIV style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-TOP: 15px"
name="Compose message area">
<DIV class=im>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><SPAN>"</SPAN><SPAN>I argued at length that <I
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px">all</I> the
arguments employed to advance same sex marriage can be, are being, and will be
used to advance polygamy also. In short, gay marriage greases the skids for
polygamy."</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>If nothing else this thread has certainly proven Doug
to be spot on in his analysis. Goodness knows that’s gotta sting.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV><B>From:</B> <A
title="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target=_blank>Joe Campbell</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 01, 2013 6:06 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A
title="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com" target=_blank>Gary Crabtree</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A
title="mailto:thansen@moscow.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" target=_blank>Tom Hansen</A> ; <A
title="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target=_blank>Paul Rumelhart</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
target=_blank>vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Huh? Say
WHAT!?</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I'm not denying anything. Maybe three or more. I just don't
want to confuse it with the issue of same-sex marriage. That seems important
to me, just because I can see the folks that such a law might help. I don't
happen to meet many polygamists, so I'm not too concerned for now.<BR><BR>Why
not take one step: include same-sex marriages. If the polygamists complain as
much as the gays and lesbians, we might have to revisit the issue.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Gary Crabtree <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
title="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"
target=_blank>jampot@roadrunner.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote><U></U>
<DIV style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-TOP: 15px"
dir=auto name="Compose message area">
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>Then why deny three or more?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=thansen@moscow.com
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" target=_blank>Tom Hansen</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 01, 2013 2:07 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=godshatter@yahoo.com
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target=_blank>Paul Rumelhart</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A
title="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target=_blank>vision2020@moscow.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Huh? Say
WHAT!?</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I absolutely fail to see what the happiness of two adults has ANYTHING
to do with a polygamous relationship.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Let me simply say . . .</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Later this year, I turn 62, my spouse turns whatever age she acquires,
and we (my spouse and I) turn 40; forty of the most wonderfully memorable
and loving years of yesterdays that will only be improved upon with
tomorrows. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>To deny ANY two individuals of such an experience, merely because it
runs contra to somebody else's belief system, lacks the slightest inkling of
human compassion.<BR><BR>
<DIV>Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.MoscowCares.com"
target=_blank>http://www.MoscowCares.com</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Tom Hansen</DIV>
<DIV>Moscow, Idaho</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>"<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium">There's room at the top they are
telling you still</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium"> </SPAN></DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium">But first you must learn how to smile as you
kill </SPAN><BR style="FONT-SIZE: medium"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium">If you want to be like the folks on the
hill."</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3><SPAN><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3><SPAN>- John Lennon<BR></SPAN></FONT>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Mar 1, 2013, at 1:48 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<A
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"
target=_blank>godshatter@yahoo.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I
think the general argument would run something like this: "if it's
OK for any two consenting adults of either gender to marry, then why isn't
it OK for any three or more consenting adults of any gender to
marry?"<BR><BR>If that's what he's thinking, I can kind of see his
point. Of course, I'm personally fine with gay marriage, and would
have no problems with polygamy either. I'd be happiest if the
government got out of the marriage racket to begin with,
frankly.<BR><BR>Paul<BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial>
<HR SIZE=1>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Joe Campbell <<A
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com"
target=_blank>philosopher.joe@gmail.com</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Art Deco <<A
href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com"
target=_blank>art.deco.studios@gmail.com</A>> <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> <A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
target=_blank>vision2020@moscow.com</A> <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, March 1, 2013 11:39
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[Vision2020] Huh? Say WHAT!?<BR></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV>Well, if he argued that polygamy and gay marriage are similar, then
that is just another fallacious argument. It is like arguing that we can
give every adult the right to vote because that would lead to some folks
voting more than once. We would be powerless to avoid that! <BR><BR>
<DIV>On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Art Deco <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>art.deco.studios@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>
<DIV>Cultmaster Wilson is hopelessly floundering as he is swept out to
sea on the tide of reality and oncoming change. But that's what
happens to those that allege total faith in some "inerrant" ancient
texts. Foolhardiness begets misery for others.<BR><BR></DIV>It's
too bad that the Cultmaster is not a Mormon so that he could have a
"new" vision from some alleged God correcting his current
views.<BR><BR></DIV>w.<BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Tom Hansen <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>thansen@moscow.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>"</SPAN><SPAN>I argued at length that <I
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px">all</I> the
arguments employed to advance same sex marriage can be, are being, and
will be used to advance polygamy also. In short, gay marriage greases
the skids for polygamy."</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>- Doug Wilson (March 1, 2013)</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; FONT-SIZE: 15px"><A
href="http://www.dougwils.com/Sex-and-Culture/a-century-of-sinkholes.html"
rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.dougwils.com/Sex-and-Culture/a-century-of-sinkholes.html</A></SPAN><SPAN><BR></SPAN><BR>
<DIV>Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants
on)</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.MoscowCares.com"
target=_blank>http://www.MoscowCares.com</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Tom Hansen</DIV>
<DIV>Moscow, Idaho</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>"<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium">There's room at the top they are
telling you still</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium"> </SPAN></DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium">But first you must learn how to smile as you
kill </SPAN><BR style="FONT-SIZE: medium"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium">If you want to be like the folks on the
hill."</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3><SPAN><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3><SPAN>- John Lennon<BR></SPAN></FONT>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>=======================================================<BR> List
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color=#888888><BR></FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><SPAN><FONT
color=#888888><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR><A
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