Darrell,<br><br>Nice finally meeting you the other day! <br><br>I appreciate your attempt to clear the air, but you still haven't acknowledged that what Wayne said was offensive. It just was. I know Wayne and he's a great guy, in my opinion. I'm sure he MEANT to say something more like what you've said below. I've offended people before too. But when I have I've tried to apologize. Wayne should apologize -- especially since he's not going to get the vote from the radical right! He doesn't even endorse the 2nd Amendment, right? He needs the moderate vote.<br>
<br>He should apologize for making an insensitive remark. I would not want someone comparing, say, my sister to a monkey, and if I was trying to fight for the rights of my sister and someone made this analogy, I would be offended. Even if I was mistaken in my attempt to fight for my sister's rights, I wouldn't want to see her compared to a monkey.<br>
<br>Best, Joe<br><br>PS Notice how the conversation shifted from one about the offensive nature of the remark to some legal/philosophical issue. I'm a philosopher but in this case, that is not the issue. It is the offensive nature of the remark, its dismissive character, its failure to understand the difficult struggles that others endure.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Darrell Keim <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:keim153@gmail.com" target="_blank">keim153@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>I happened to sit next to Wayne yesterday when someone asked him to explain his remarks. He elaborated that his point was that we shouldn't need to have special protections for different groups. We should hold ourselves to the standard of treating all people equally, which our Constitution already guarantees. </div>
<div> </div><div>While his quote in the paper makes him sound like an idiot (reporters have a way of doing this-context is SO important), I agree with the sentiment he attempted to express. Why can't we work with the simple rule already expressed in our countries founding document: treat others with basic dignity and decency. The guy is not nearly the troglodyte he is being made out to be.<br>
<br></div><div><div><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Art Deco <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com" target="_blank">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Aside from its gross insensitivity and ignorance the remarks provide a revelation about Krauss's personal feelings and the lack of comment implying consent by the other semi-conscious officials present, this is part of a longer saga.<br>
<br></div>There is hardly a month that has gone by since he took office and made a fool of himself starting with his participation and remarks in the Hawkins scandal, that Wayne Krauss hasn't provided ample evidence of the long circulating characterization of him that as the former manager of the Goodyear store he was hit in the head too hard and too many times with a tire iron.<br>
</div><br></div>w.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Saundra Lund <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm" target="_blank">v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote"><div vlink="purple" link="blue" lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">What a horse’s rear end Krauss continues to show himself to be. Disgusting.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">Here’s the article Roger Hayes referred to:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><h1 style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"" lang="EN">Antidiscrimination ordinance vetted by committee<u></u><u></u></span></h1>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><b><span lang="EN">By Brandon Macz, Daily News staff writer | Posted: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 12:00 am </span></b><span lang="EN"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-left:0.5in">
<span lang="EN">Considering an ordinance to make housing and job discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity a criminal offense in Moscow, Councilor Wayne Krauss asked City Attorney Randy Fife where demands for more protections would end.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><b><span lang="EN">Krauss asked rhetorically whether someone bringing monkeys into a business and being refused service would require a discrimination ordinance for monkey owners. <u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span lang="EN">Fife laid out for the Administrative Committee on Monday details of his draft ordinance. Under the ordinance, an employer would not be allowed to refuse to hire or fire a person for their sexual orientation or gender identity, or to deny an employee advancement or training on that same basis. It would also prevent businesses from refusing to serve a person based on their sexual orientation or gender identity.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span lang="EN">On the housing side, refusal to sell, buy or rent property or to repair, maintain or improve it would also be prohibited if it were the result of such discrimination, Fife said.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span lang="EN">Exceptions include religious entities, other governments and agencies, boarding houses, private clubs or institutions and two-family dwellings, such as duplexes, where the property owner or a relative lives in one of the units.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span lang="EN">Krauss was curious about whether businesses, such as restaurants, which often display signs indicating their right to refuse service to anyone, could refuse to serve someone based on their sexual orientation or gender identity without disclosing that as the reason. Fife said if someone felt that was the reason for denial of service, they could file a complaint under the ordinance.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span lang="EN">"I hate any kind of bullying whatsoever, and discrimination is a form of bullying, in my mind," Krauss said.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span lang="EN">Krauss said he didn't like the idea of the city being forced to react to a continuous list of discriminatory grievances.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span lang="EN">"The question is, where does it stop?" Krauss said. "Why doesn't the 14th Amendment cover the whole darn thing?"<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-left:0.5in">
<span lang="EN">The amendment says "No State shall deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span lang="EN">Fife said he prepared the draft after reviewing laws already on the books in Sandpoint, Boise and Salt Lake City and said he favored Boise's. The proposed ordinance would fill a gap in the federal and state human rights acts.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span lang="EN">Anyone believing themselves to be discriminated against because of their sexual orientation or gender identity would file a report with the Moscow Police Department, Fife said, which would conduct an investigation and file a report with the city prosecutor to validate whether the claim constitutes an offense under the ordinance.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span lang="EN">If so, mediation would be attempted between the two parties by the city attorney with the offender facing a misdemeanor if a resolution can't be met. If the defendant takes remediation steps, the penalty could be reduced to an infraction. Should both parties settle, the charge would be dismissed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span lang="EN">"You want compliance, not punishment. That's the goal," Fife said, adding the criminal process might do better in a separate council resolution.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span lang="EN">Fife said pushes on the municipal level could force the issue in the Idaho Legislature, which has historically never passed an amendment to its human rights act covering sexual orientation and gender identity out of committee.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span lang="EN">"That's not going to happen, so we'll continue to legislate morality," Krauss said.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span lang="EN">The draft ordinance will be reviewed by the city's Fair and Affordable Housing and Human Rights commissions before returning to the Administrative Committee to forward the draft to the full council.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><b><span lang="EN">More Well No. 9 problems</span></b><span lang="EN"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span lang="EN">Public Works Director Les MacDonald reported the recently reinstalled Well No. 9 pump and motor have to be removed again after testing Friday knocked out power to the well house. Once power was restored, a ground fault was detected, which means something is short-circuiting the electricity being channeled through the pump and motor, he said.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span lang="EN">"It means we're in a different situation than before," MacDonald said.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span lang="EN">The pump was shut down in June when it stopped functioning and the motor was sent to be repaired by Alstra Technologies in Tempe, Ariz. It was reinstalled in late September, but was shut down again when the electric current became too high and caused the protection unit to shut it down. The motor was returned to Alstra and the pump was analyzed by a Spokane company before both were tested by another manufacturer in Arizona.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span lang="EN">The pump and motor were reinstalled in two weeks ago, but further testing in Moscow showed the electric current was still too high and a "whale song" noise occurred when it was reconnected to the system, MacDonald said. Following Friday's outage, he said removal of the pump and motor by crane began Monday and should be completed today. He added an outside consultant may need to be brought in to determine the city's next move. Well No. 9 can produce up to 40 percent of the city's water.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style="text-align:center;line-height:18pt;margin-left:0.5in" class="MsoNormal" align="center"><span style="font-size:13pt" lang="EN"><hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"></span></div><p style="margin-left:0.5in">
<b><span lang="EN">Brandon Macz</span></b><span lang="EN"> can be reached at <a href="tel:%28208%29%20882-5561%2C%20ext.%20238" value="+12088825561" target="_blank">(208) 882-5561, ext. 238</a>, or by email to <a href="mailto:bmacz@dnews.com" target="_blank">bmacz@dnews.com</a>.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">And, here’s the letter to the editor Roger also referred to:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="background:white;line-height:20.25pt;margin-left:0.5in" class="MsoNormal">
<b><span style="font-size:18pt" lang="EN">Basic human rights<u></u><u></u></span></b></p><p style="background:white;line-height:18pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:0.5in" class="MsoNormal">
<b><span style="font-size:13pt" lang="EN">Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:00 am </span></b><span style="font-size:13pt" lang="EN"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="background:white;line-height:18pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:0.5in" class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:13pt" lang="EN">Moscow City Councilor Wayne Krauss has implied that refusing service to monkey owners in a business setting is the same as denying fair housing and job rights to residents based on their sexual orientation or gender identity.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="background:white;line-height:18pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:0.5in" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt" lang="EN">As reported by Brandon Macz in "Antidiscrimination ordinance vetted," (<i>Daily News</i>, Feb. 26): "Krauss asked rhetorically whether someone bringing monkeys into a business and being refused service would require a discrimination ordinance for monkey owners."<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="line-height:18pt;margin-left:0.5in" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt" lang="EN">You must be logged in with the proper services to print this article. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="background:white;line-height:18pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:0.5in" class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:13pt" lang="EN">Think about what he is really saying.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="background:white;line-height:18pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:0.5in" class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:13pt" lang="EN">Also, according to Macz, Krauss questions "legislating morality." Yet Krauss is forcing his own "morality" on public legislation, denying basic human rights to a sector of the population that he is being paid to serve.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="background:white;line-height:18pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:0.5in" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt" lang="EN">Please, Krauss, apologize for what you said and rethink your stance.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="background:white;line-height:18pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:0.5in" class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:13pt" lang="EN">Lisa Kliger</span></b><span style="font-size:13pt" lang="EN"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="background:white;line-height:18pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:0.5in" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt" lang="EN">Moscow<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div><div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-size:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-size:10pt"> <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rosemary Huskey<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:50 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com" target="_blank">rhayes@frontier.com</a>; 'Moscow Vision 2020'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">I am gobsmacked about Wayne Krauss’ remarks. Where did he make them? Thank you for letting 2020 readers know.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">Rose Huskey<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div><div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-size:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-size:10pt"> <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a> [<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com" target="_blank">rhayes@frontier.com</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:47 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p style="background:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";font-size:10pt">And yesterday Wayne <span>Krauss</span> was quoted that offering equal protection to all citizens including that of sexual identity and orientation to bringing monkeys to a restaurant and demanding service. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p style="background:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";font-size:10pt">In this case crackpot... and a sad reflection on our city council. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div><p style="background:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";font-size:10pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p style="background:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";font-size:10pt">For those with short memories:<br>
<br>On a scale of 0 to 10 where 10 is the easiest to be <span>hornswoggled</span> <span>Carscalen</span><br>and <span>Krauss</span> are clearly 10s based on how Hawkins and Mr. Slime Steed (acting<br>in the conflicting roles of city council person and *<span>defacto</span>* agent of his<br>
longtime associates Hawkins) <span>hornswoggled</span> the council into the sweetheart<br>deal with the now never to be Hawkins mall against the fundamental<br>interests of Idaho citizens.<br><br>How do you choose a GOP leader? From the crackpots or the corrupt?<br>
<br>w.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p style="background:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";font-size:10pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div>
</div></div></div><br>=======================================================<br>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
<a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================<span><font color="#888888"><br></font></span></blockquote></div><span><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<br>
<a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com" target="_blank">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a><br>
<br><img src=""><br>
</font></span></div>
<br>=======================================================<br>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
<a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================<br></blockquote></div><br>
</div></div><br>=======================================================<br>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
<a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================<br></blockquote></div><br>