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They of course have every right to refuse to sell guns to whomever
they wish. I don't think it's a very good idea. It's similar to
when some businesses were thinking about not selling coffees or
whatever to the megaload trick drivers. I don't personally like
the idea of selling to only people who believe what you do. I
think if you put it out there for the public to buy, then you
ought not to restrict certain members of the public from buying it
without good reason.<br>
<br>
On the other hand, they make a good point about weapons laws and
law enforcement. Why are there guns that a law enforcement member
can buy and use legally that an ordinary citizen cannot? They are
not military. I'm sure, legally, because the laws on the books
allow them to. I just don't see an argument for it based on the
Second Amendment.<br>
<br>
There is also the irony that if certain gun laws are going to be
enforced on the general public, it's going to be done by law
enforcement officers carrying guns that the public isn't allowed
to use.<br>
<br>
Anyway, it's a complicated topic. I don't know exactly what to
think.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 02/25/2013 05:04 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+fbP8yeEPx3R8Ru0ho23wY3+3p0vJ2atpq0i4UkUNNY7qnqZA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Paul,<br>
<br>
What do you think about this? <br>
<br>
Doesn't this impose an undo pressure on politicians? Note: I am
not saying that firearms-makers don't have this right. Of course
they do. But sometimes you've complained about criticisms of, say,
Christ Church -- you said they were a form of political
correctness that might silence genuine debate. People may be
intimidated by the fear of being labeled a "bigot" or a "Nazi." So
these are unfair labels, presumably because the prejudice a
person's judgment.<br>
<br>
I must admit, I think exactly the opposite in these two cases.
Criticisms of Christ Church or any entity are just that:
criticisms; words. People should be free to criticize anyone as
much as they wish, provided they stay within legal and ethical
boundaries.<br>
<br>
On the other hand, something seems wrong about firearms-makers
putting pressure on congress. There is no argument here, no reason
why the firearms-makers view is preferred. Other than an
unwarranted appeal to the 2nd amendment. Other then that, there is
just the fact that firearms-makers will make profit if their crazy
view is accepted. Maybe I haven't put my finger on it but
something has gone wrong here.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Paul
Rumelhart <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman,new
york,times,serif">
<h1>Firearms-makers to politicians on gun rights: You
balk, we walk<br>
</h1>
<h2><span style="font-weight:bold"><span
style="font-weight:normal"></span></span><span
style="font-weight:bold"><span
style="font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-size:16px">Firearms companies ranging
from gun shops to machinists are joining forces to
oppose new gun control laws. Some are threatening
to move away from states that crack down on guns,
others are refusing to sell gear to police that
can't be sold to citizens.</span></span></span></h2>
<cite>By <span>Patrik Jonsson</span> | <span>Christian
Science Monitor</span> – <abbr
title="2013-02-23T19:05:24Z">Sat, Feb 23, 2013<br>
<br>
<br>
</abbr></cite>
<div>A growing number of firearm firms in the <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/United+States"
target="_blank">US</a> are vowing to reverse-boycott
local and <span>state governments</span> that enact any
new infringements on the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Second+Amendment"
target="_blank">Second Amendment</a>.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Vowing to close what they're calling "the police
loophole," at least 50 US companies, ranging from gun
machinists to gun shops, are now saying publicly they'll
refuse to sell weapons and gear to police in places
where governments have banned the use of the same gear
by civilians.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Quality Arms, located in Rigby, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Idaho"
target="_blank">Idaho</a>, writes on its website that
it "will not supply any firearm or product manufactured
by us or any other company, nor will we warranty,
repair, alter or modify a firearm owned by any state,
county or municipality that infringes on the right of
its citizens to bear arms under the 2nd Amendment."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The move comes as Congress and some state houses are
considering new gun controls in the wake of the Dec. 14
massacre at <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Sandy+Hook+Elementary+School"
target="_blank">Sandy Hook Elementary School</a> in <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Newtown+%28Connecticut%29"
target="_blank">Newtown, Conn.</a> The most direct
target of the "police loophole" movement seems to be <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/New+York"
target="_blank">New York State</a>, which put into law
a raft of new <span>gun control</span> regulations,
including limiting the size of magazines, last month.</div>
<div
style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times
new roman,new york,times,serif"><br>
</div>
<div>"Based on the recent legislation in <span>New York</span>,
we are prohibited from selling rifles and receivers to
residents of New York [so] we have chosen to extend that
prohibition to all governmental agencies associated with
or located within <span>New York</span>," York Arms of
Buxton, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Maine"
target="_blank">Maine</a>, writes on its website.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So far, none of the major gun manufacturers have
joined the list, and it's an open question whether the
smaller companies are bluffing or would even have
occasion to sell directly to governments in New York
State, for example.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"Unless S&W, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Springfield+Armory+Inc."
target="_blank">Springfield Armory</a>, Ruger,
Remington, etc. get on board, these boycotts are
practically useless," writes an anonymous poster on the
Sipsey Street Irregulars blog.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Meanwhile, the push for more gun control continues
across the country, led by <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Barack+Obama"
target="_blank">President Obama</a>.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Friday, Obama's political advocacy group,
Organizing for Action, held over 100 events across the
country, including letter-writing parties, rallies with
police chiefs and mayors, and candlelight vigils, to
push for Obama's federal gun control plan, which
includes beefing up background checks and banning
assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nevertheless, at least one of the companies on the
"police loophole" list, Predator Intelligence of <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Phoenix+%28Arizona%29"
target="_blank">Phoenix, Ariz.</a>, says its pushback
against new gun control laws is having an impact.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"We have police from LA and <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/New+York+City"
target="_blank">NYC</a> that contact us about
purchasing Magazines if they provide proof," the company
wrote recently on <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Facebook+Inc."
target="_blank">Facebook</a>. "Why should we consider
sending them to states that want to enforce laws that
are unconstitutional?"</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Indeed, the lack of support from police may have led
the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Minnesota+State+Senate"
target="_blank">Minnesota State Senate</a> this week
to drop proposals to ban assault weapons and
high-capacity magazines.</div>
<div>“The assault weapons ban and high-capacity magazine
ban proposals are highly divisive,” Sen. Ron Latz, the
chair of the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/U.S.+Senate+Committee+on+the+Judiciary"
target="_blank">Senate Judiciary Committee</a>, told
the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Minneapolis"
target="_blank">Minneapolis</a> Star-Tribune, noting
that those proposals had not received strong support
from police.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>While <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/John+Hickenlooper"
target="_blank">Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper</a>,
for example, has said it's time for new limits on some
guns and ammunition, threats by a major <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Colorado"
target="_blank">Colorado</a> arms manufacturer, <span>Magpul</span>,
to take hundreds of jobs out of state if the governor
signs such laws appears to have given Mr. Hickenlooper
some pause.</div>
<div
style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times
new roman,new york,times,serif"><br>
</div>
<div>After the House passed four specific gun control
bills recently, including limiting the kind of magazines
that Magpul builds, Hickenlooper has not yet signaled
whether he'll sign the measures into law. (The <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Colorado+State+Senate"
target="_blank">Colorado Senate</a> has yet to vote on
the package.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>“We haven’t taken a specific position on that bill
yet,” Hickenlooper said this week, as reported by
Colorado Public Radio, “but I from time to time have
said contradictory things on it.”</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>While Magpul employs 200 people directly, it's slated
to spend $85 million buying goods, particularly
injection-molded plastics, from other Colorado firms in
2013. The company says it would spend that money
elsewhere if Colorado moves ahead with its gun control
package, saying their customers would object if any or
all of the product was built in a gun-critical state.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Texas"
target="_blank">Texas</a>, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/South+Carolina"
target="_blank">South Carolina</a>, and Idaho,
meanwhile, are pleading with Magpul to relocate to their
more gun-friendly states.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"South Carolina would welcome Magpul with open arms,"
US <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Jeff+Duncan"
target="_blank">Rep. Jeff Duncan</a> (R) wrote to the
company. "South Carolina is a freedom-loving state. The
Second Amendment is very near and dear not only to the
folks in my district, but to folks in the entire state."</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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