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Sorry, I'm just sensitive to what I think of as the group-think
that is happening. Have you ever heard the old Japanese saying
"the nail that sticks out will get hammered down"? That's how I
feel whenever I bring up this subject. If I even hint that I
might be thinking something that is what I think of as
"off-message", I'm a nail that is sticking out that just *has* to
be hammered down.<br>
<br>
I've been speaking my mind and coming at things from an unusual
perspective all my life. There are very few subjects that I've
run across that are quite like this. There are a lot of subjects
that people won't entertain, but that just ends up with no
conversation happening. There are lots of subjects that I don't
make traction on because the people I argue with are set in their
views, but they end up just content to let me beat against their
defenses futilely. There are lots of subjects where the majority
disagrees with me, but they eventually just end up ignoring me,
happy in their majority. Not this subject. I have to be hammered
back down or die trying. There appears to be no middle ground.<br>
<br>
If I didn't keep seeing holes in the curtain, I guess it wouldn't
be a problem. But I do. I'm not saying the whole thing is bogus,
just that there is too much confidence where there is too little
actual real-world validation.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 02/11/2013 08:07 PM, Ron Force wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1360642026.99881.YahooMailNeo@web162704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial,
helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
<div><span>I chimed in on this because the meme from the climate
skeptics has been "But in the 70's you were predicting an
ice age!" and I thought that's what you were referencing.
The AMA article was proving that that outlook was a
minority, which has since been shown to be wrong. OK if you
were just comparing it to winter storm Nemo. I have
comparable pictures from my daughter's yard in Maine this
week. Sure looks like an ice age.</span><img
moz-do-not-send="true"
src="http://mail.yimg.com/ok/u/assets/img/emoticons/emo1.gif"
alt="*:) happy" style="font-size: 10pt;"></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ron Force<br>
Moscow Idaho USA<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt;">
<div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times,
serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2">
<hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b>
Paul Rumelhart <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"><godshatter@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Ron
Force <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com"><rforce2003@yahoo.com></a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b>
Moscow Vision2020 <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><vision2020@moscow.com></a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Sunday, February 10, 2013 9:58 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Vision2020] In Search Of - The Coming Ice Age<br>
</font> </div>
<br>
<div id="yiv1313570949">
<div>
<div class="yiv1313570949moz-cite-prefix"><br>
I didn't post this to get in an argument about global
cooling. I do find it awfully strange that so much
time and effort goes into trying to show just how much
consensus there is, as if that had any importance in
science. If every single paper on climate change ever
published showed it was a problem, all except for one,
and that one paper fit the data better, then consensus
would be wrong. Now the American Meteorological
Society is spending it's time trying to show that, no,
really, we didn't really think that an ice age was
coming, honest.<br>
<br>
"Consensus" is a political term, right up there with
"compromise", and "mind-share".<br>
<br>
I don't remember aerosols being the reason given for
ice ages. Not that I'm saying you're wrong, just that
that's not how I remember it being framed. It had
more to do with orbital cycles and/or the air in the
arctic warming enough to be able to carry more
moisture and thus more snow, if I remember correctly.
But then, I haven't gone back to the 70's literature
and graded all the papers as "warming", "cooling", or
"neutral", so what do I know?<br>
<br>
I posted this video because it referenced the winter
of 1977, which I thought somebody might find
interesting given the weather that is happening in the
North East.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Btw, I'm not a trained mother-f***ing climatologist;
but then I doubt anyone else on this list is either.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 02/10/2013 08:58 PM, Ron Force wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: arial, helvetica,
sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<div><span><font size="2">Yes, there was sensational
media hype about "the coming ice age". It was
based on studies which showed increasing
atmospheric aerosols, projected to quadruple
over the coming decades. The clean Air Act of
1970 proved to be more efficient than
expected, and aerosols declined by the late
70s . (It was all the fault of that socialist
hippie Richard Nixon) However, studies have
shown that the consensus even back then was
for warming. Here's a study from the Journal
of the American Meteorological Association:</font></span></div>
<div style="background-color:transparent;"><span><font
size="2"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/2008BAMS2370.1">http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/2008BAMS2370.1</a><br>
</font></span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent; color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: arial,
helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal;"><span><font
size="2"><br>
</font></span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent; color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: arial,
helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal;"><span><font
size="2">Here's a more popular summary:</font></span></div>
<div style="background-color: transparent; color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: arial,
helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: normal;"><span><font
size="2"><br>
</font></span></div>
<div style="background-color:transparent;"><span><font
size="2"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s-intermediate.htm">http://www.skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s-intermediate.htm</a><br>
</font></span></div>
<div style="font-family: arial, helvetica,
sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial, helvetica,
sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Ron Force<br>
Moscow Idaho USA<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial, helvetica,
sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new
york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2">
<hr size="1"> <b><span
style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b>
Paul Rumelhart <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
class="yiv1313570949moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"><godshatter@yahoo.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b>
Vision 2020 <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
class="yiv1313570949moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><Vision2020@moscow.com></a>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Sunday, February 10, 2013 5:22 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b>
[Vision2020] In Search Of - The Coming Ice
Age<br>
</font> </div>
<br>
I happened to run across this today. Not only
does it confirm my memories that a coming ice
age was being discussed in the late 70's / early
80's, but it also talks about the particularly
tough winter of 1977 in the North Eastern part
of the country. I thought the comparison to the
snowfall from the last few days in the same area
might be interesting.<br>
<br>
Here is the link:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_861us8D9M">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_861us8D9M</a><br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
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ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"
target="_blank"
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=======================================================<br>
<br>
<br>
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List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" class="yiv1313570949moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://www.fsr.net/">http://www.fsr.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" class="yiv1313570949moz-txt-link-freetext" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
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List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
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