<div>All of this is correct, however should a crime be committed with any given firearm the police will have little trouble using the serial number to track the weapon from mfg. to distributor to retailer who after checking the 4473's will happily tell law enforcement who purchased the firearm. All of this will take far less time then this discussion did.</div>
<div> </div><div>NCIS background checks are not required of CWP holders because they have already submitted to a more detailed background check to obtain their permit.</div><div> </div><div>g<br>
<br></div><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 7:59 AM, Daniel Foucachon <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:foucachon@gmail.com" target="_blank">foucachon@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote">
You do fill out "form 4473" for any gun purchase, but as someone else said, the store keeps that info. Feds only get the NICS data telling them that someone probably bought a firearm (since you could technically back out after approval). If you have a CWP the NICS is unnecessary and the Feds get absolutely no information on the sale.<br>
<br>
That is at least my understanding from talking to FFLs, first hand experience, and doing some research.<br>
<br>
-Daniel<br>
<br>
<br>
On Jan 27, 2013, at 21:54, <a href="mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020-request@moscow.com</a> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to<br>
> <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
><br>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
> <a href="http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020" target="_blank">http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020</a><br>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
> <a href="mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020-request@moscow.com</a><br>
><br>
> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
> <a href="mailto:vision2020-owner@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020-owner@moscow.com</a><br>
><br>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
> than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."<br>
><br>
><br>
> Today's Topics:<br>
><br>
> 1. Re: gun shows (Gary Crabtree)<br>
><br>
><br>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
> Message: 1<br>
> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:54:24 -0800<br>
> From: "Gary Crabtree" <<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com" target="_blank">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>><br>
> To: "Tom Hansen" <<a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" target="_blank">thansen@moscow.com</a>><br>
> Cc: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] gun shows<br>
> Message-ID: <1D133D0C310C424BB94D1DB6EA3295CE@GaryPC><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
><br>
> I challenge you to try to go to ANY store in Idaho (or anywhere else) that sells firearms and purchase ANY rifle (or handgun or shotgun) and not fill out a 4473. When you are done, please return to the list and tell us just exactly how wrong you you were. I'll be waiting patiently.<br>
><br>
> g<br>
><br>
> ps. why do you think that you can't buy a firearm over the internet? answer: you have to physically fill out the form, have your I.D. checked, and have the background check completed. (the last omitted if in possession of a current valid CWP) You would garner far more respect if you would just man up and admit you haven't a clue what you're talking about when it comes to firearms ownership in Idaho (or anywhere else)<br>
><br>
><br>
> From: Tom Hansen<br>
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 7:59 PM<br>
> To: Gary Crabtree<br>
> Cc: Dan Carscallen ; <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] gun shows<br>
><br>
><br>
> g . . . g . . . g -<br>
><br>
><br>
> Yes. Apparently the Federal Form 4473 is required to be completed and submitted to the ATF ON FIREARMS THAT THEY (THE ATF) REQUIRE TO BE REGISTERED.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Again . . .<br>
><br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.atf.gov/contact/faq/" target="_blank">http://www.atf.gov/contact/faq/</a><br>
><br>
> "Some examples of the types of NFA firearms that must be registered are: Machine guns, frames or receivers of machine guns; any combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting weapons into machine guns; any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for converting a weapon into a machine gun; any combination of parts from which a machine gun can be assembled if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person; silencers and any part designed and intended for fabricating a silencer; short-barreled rifles and shotguns; molotov cocktails, anti-tank guns (over caliber .50), bazookas, and mortars.<br>
><br>
><br>
> A few examples of 'any other weapon' are: H&R Handyguns, Ithaca auto-burglar guns, cane guns, gadget-type firearms and ?pen? guns which fire a projectile by the action of an explosive."<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Another thing: I NEVER suggested/implied that local authorities are stupid. I never will, as my father was a police officer for 36 years. Some day I will have to post a photo of my dad (in uniform) next to a scanned photo of his retirement badge that I proudly maintain in my family archives . . . but not for a while, a LOOOOOOONG while.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .<br>
><br>
><br>
> "Moscow Cares"<br>
> <a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a><br>
><br>
> Tom Hansen<br>
> Moscow, Idaho<br>
><br>
><br>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still<br>
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill<br>
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."<br>
><br>
><br>
> - John Lennon<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:25 PM, "Gary Crabtree" <<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com" target="_blank">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> Federal form 4473 must be filled out for every firearm purchase. They are on file and local law enforcement has access to them. If you purchased the weapon through a private sale they will contact the original purchaser and then follow the chain of ownership. The cops aren't as stupid as you make them out to be.<br>
><br>
> g<br>
><br>
><br>
> From: Tom Hansen<br>
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 7:04 PM<br>
> To: Dan Carscallen<br>
> Cc: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] gun shows<br>
><br>
><br>
> What federal form did they have you fill out?<br>
><br>
><br>
> According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and FIREARMS [my emphasis] . . .<br>
><br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.atf.gov/contact/faq/" target="_blank">http://www.atf.gov/contact/faq/</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> "Some examples of the types of NFA firearms that must be registered are: Machine guns, frames or receivers of machine guns; any combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting weapons into machine guns; any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for converting a weapon into a machine gun; any combination of parts from which a machine gun can be assembled if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person; silencers and any part designed and intended for fabricating a silencer; short-barreled rifles and shotguns; molotov cocktails, anti-tank guns (over caliber .50), bazookas, and mortars."<br>
><br>
><br>
> Here's a little something for your bookshelf . . .<br>
><br>
><br>
> The National Firearms Act Handbook<br>
> <a href="http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/nfa-handbook/" target="_blank">http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/nfa-handbook/</a><br>
><br>
> 'Nuff said!<br>
><br>
><br>
> Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .<br>
><br>
><br>
> "Moscow Cares"<br>
> <a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a><br>
><br>
> Tom Hansen<br>
> Moscow, Idaho<br>
><br>
><br>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still<br>
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill<br>
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."<br>
><br>
><br>
> - John Lennon<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 6:53 PM, Dan Carscallen <<a href="mailto:areaman@moscow.com" target="_blank">areaman@moscow.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> Well, the Feds know what rifles and/or shotguns I have purchased (or can easily find out) because each of the reputable dealers where the sale was made had me full out the federal form. Each form has my name and the serial number of the firearm, thereby linking it to me. Is that in a state or national database? I don't know. I'm not a gun dealer, just a buyer and owner.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Maybe not registration in the purest sense, but a form of it nonetheless.<br>
><br>
> DC<br>
><br>
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 18:46, Tom Hansen <<a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" target="_blank">thansen@moscow.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> Ahem, mr. Carscallen<br>
><br>
><br>
> <a href="http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/f/gunlaws_id.htm" target="_blank">http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/f/gunlaws_id.htm</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> Rifles and Shotguns<br>
> a.. Permit to purchase rifles and shotguns? No<br>
><br>
> b.. Registration of rifles and shotguns? No<br>
><br>
> c.. Licensing of owners of rifles and shotguns? No<br>
><br>
> d.. Permit to carry rifles and shotguns? No<br>
> My claim is also supported by Idaho state law at:<br>
><br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.211.idaho.gov/elibrary/FirearmLaws.html" target="_blank">http://www.211.idaho.gov/elibrary/FirearmLaws.html</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .<br>
><br>
><br>
> "Moscow Cares"<br>
> <a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a><br>
><br>
> Tom Hansen<br>
> Moscow, Idaho<br>
><br>
><br>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still<br>
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill<br>
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."<br>
><br>
><br>
> - John Lennon<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Jan 27, 2013, at 6:26 PM, Dan Carscallen <<a href="mailto:areaman@moscow.com" target="_blank">areaman@moscow.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> Tom says:<br>
><br>
><br>
> Rifles are not registered<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Yes they are. I've filled out the requisite paperwork.<br>
><br>
> DC<br>
><br>
> =======================================================<br>
> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
> <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
> =======================================================<br>
><br>
> =======================================================<br>
> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
> <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
> =======================================================<br>
><br>
><br>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
> =======================================================<br>
> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
> <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
> =======================================================<br>
> -------------- next part --------------<br>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
> URL: <<a href="http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20130127/cdeb107d/attachment.html" target="_blank">http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20130127/cdeb107d/attachment.html</a>><br>
><br>
> ------------------------------<br>
><br>
> =======================================================<br>
> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
> <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
> =======================================================<br>
><br>
> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 79, Issue 327<br>
> *******************************************<br>
<br>
=======================================================<br>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
<a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================<br>
</blockquote></div><br>