Paul,<br><br>I want to bring something up from a while ago. <br><br>Your complaint against gun control below is particular: "It's not the gun that's the problem, it's the people willing to use one to kill children." This is not a general complaint -- you are not appealing to the 2nd amendment, for instance -- it is particular and leaves it open that IF there is evidence that in fact GUNS are a significant part of the "problem," then you'd be OK with gun control. Your point is that there is no such evidence.<br>
<br>Part of this was the point I was trying to make. It does no good to simply appeal to the 2nd amendment against some form of gun control. That is a given. For if the GUN is a significant problem, that may trump the right -- just as potential financial harms trump the right of free speech in cases of libel. The Bill of Rights does not secure absolute rights, for no rights are absolute. The NRA view is both incorrect and unhelpful.<br>
<br>I'll only add that whether or not some particular form of gun control solves or improves upon a "problem" is an empirical question and will vary depending upon the form of gun control and the "problem."<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Paul Rumelhart <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div><br>
I wasn't trying to be cryptic. Your agenda is to ban guns,
presumably out of a short-sighted attempt to save children's
lives. I didn't say it was an evil agenda. In so doing, you
would take away some of my ability to protect myself and my loved
ones from a dark and dangerous world. It's short-sighted because
it focuses on the wrong thing. It's not the gun that's the
problem, it's the people willing to use one to kill children.<br>
<br>
And don't try to sell me the line that you aren't trying to ban
all guns, just the evil military looking ones, because I'm not
having it. You'd ban them all if you thought you had the
political clout to do so.<br>
<br>
Was that enough dancing, for you?<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Paul</font></span><div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 01/21/2013 04:24 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:<br>
</div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Mr. Rumelhart -</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Although you will certainly avoid answering my query or, at
minimum, dance around any conceivable response . . . </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In addition to our tirelessly expressed desire of preventing
the killing of innocents, what other "agenda" do you assign to
us "tired old progressives" as we attempt to ban the possession
and/or sale of semi-automatic assault rifles and/or
high-capacity ammunition magazines; the tools applied in the
aforementioned killing of innocents?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What benefit would we <span>"tired old progressives" realize in the pursuit
of this imagined agenda?</span><br>
<br>
<div>Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"Moscow Cares"</div>
<div><a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>Tom Hansen</div>
<div>Moscow, Idaho</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"<span style="font-size:medium">There's room at the top they are telling
you still</span><span style="font-size:medium"> </span></div>
<span style="font-size:medium">But first you must learn how to smile as you
kill </span><br style="font-size:medium">
<span style="font-size:medium">If you want to be like the folks on the hill."</span></div>
<div><font size="3"><span><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font size="3"><span>- John Lennon<br>
</span></font>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Jan 21, 2013, at 4:02 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div><br>
Nobody is forcing progressives to keep military weapons in
their homes. Their agenda is to keep others from keeping
military weapons in *their* homes. That's the problem.<br>
<br>
Ignoring, of course, that most military weapons are actually
illegal without hard to get permits. What the tired old
progressives are trying to ban are weapons that resemble
actual military weapons in outward appearance regardless of
how they actually function.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 01/21/2013 02:47 PM, Rosemary Huskey wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Darn
that tired old progressive agenda that just doesn’t
think military weapons are needed in American homes.
What in the world are they thinking about?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Rose
Huskey<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>
[<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Gary Crabtree<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 21, 2013 2:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tom Hansen<br>
<b>Cc:</b> vision 2020<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Happy gun violence
day!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">And in the link I posted a couple
of weeks ago to an MSNBC news (as opposed to opinion)
piece they said he did not. As to the incident in New
Mexico according to CNN at 6:00 AM this morning there
was an AR present but they could not confirm that it
was the weapon used.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">All of this is, of course,
completely beside the point. Far more people are
killed by blunt objects, sharp and pointy objects and
flesh and bone objects then are killed by so called
assault weapons. News stories such as the ones you
cite are merely a convenient backdrop for the
promotion of a long standing progressive agenda. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">g<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://tinyurl.com/assfaqu" target="_blank"><span style>.</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
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</blockquote>
</blockquote>
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