<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:8pt"><div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Paul,</SPAN></div>
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<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 11px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Are you trying to say that the words, " a well-regulated militia," written in the<VAR id=yui-ie-cursor></VAR> 1780s didn't mean anyone regardless of ability or <SPAN id=misspell-0><SPAN>competence</SPAN></SPAN> can own any type of weapon they can afford to purchase and use it? Now, that is just crazy talk! Obviously our forefathers, <SPAN id=misspell-1><SPAN>genius</SPAN></SPAN> that they were, could not have held the <SPAN id=misspell-2><SPAN>belief</SPAN></SPAN> that any type of government regulation of weapons, armament, or a civilian militia was <SPAN id=misspell-3><SPAN>necessary</SPAN></SPAN> and that any regulation would be clearly a complete violation of the most sacred of human rights, unlimited firepower. </SPAN></div>
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<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 11px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Donovan J. Arnold</SPAN></div>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=hr contentEditable=false readonly="true"></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Ron Force <rforce2003@yahoo.com>; Moscow Vision2020 <vision2020@moscow.com> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday, January 20, 2013 3:13 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Vision2020] Happy gun violence day!<BR></FONT></DIV><WBR>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I disagree with the idea that if it wasn't around in 1780, it should be illegal now. This is the "right to bear muskets" argument. We generally gloss over the "well-regulated militia" part of the 2<SPAN id=misspell-1 class=mark>nd</SPAN> amendment today, especially since it's my understanding that the Supreme Court already weighed in on that issue and declared weapons kept by individuals to meet that criteria. I don't have a reference to this, so I don't know what their reasoning was.<WBR><WBR>Anyway, in their view, which had a lot to do with enabling the populace to be able to use arms to regulate their government as they had just done to England, I don't think the founding fathers would have claimed that bazookas or <SPAN id=misspell-2 class=mark>LAWs</SPAN> or tanks or whatever could not be used by "well-regulated
militias". We don't really have such a beast today, although I remember one local attempt being widely ridiculed on this list. Why shouldn't we allow communities to get together and buy some non man-portable weapons to use in the defense of their property if they are going to be part of an actual well-regulated militia?<WBR><WBR>This "well regulated" wording is what (in my opinion) gives teeth to gun safety legislation. If the going assumption is that privately owned arms are considered to be part of a nation-wide well regulated militia, then we should be able to penalize people for not securing weapons properly when not in use, and requiring people to be trained in their use and requiring them to demonstrate that fact every so often. Not something that I think the NRA is very keen on, but it makes sense to me.<WBR><WBR>I can see banning nuclear weapons for militias, since the weapon is too powerful to use in such a
situation. If some enemy is attacking Moscow, should we really be using a nuke to defend ourselves? That weapon, pretty much alone, is a weapon that can really only be fielded at the national level. <WBR>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>I just looked up what the Supreme Court had to say about the "well regulated militia" part of the Second Amendment. The court was ruling on the legality of transporting sawed off shotguns across State borders. Here is a quote from the court opinion written by Justice James C. <SPAN id=misspell-3 class=mark>McReynolds</SPAN>: <BR></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>"</SPAN><B>U.S. Supreme Court (1939):</B> In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a "shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length" at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense."</DIV>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px">This reasoning would actually make "assault weapons" *more* reasonable under the Second Amendment than not, since the more like military equipment they are and the more they could contribute to the "common defense", the more related they are to the "preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia", according to this ruling.</DIV>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px">When the Washington D.C. ban on handguns was challenged in 2007, it ended up going before the Supreme Court (District of Columbia vs. Heller). The court ruled that the right to bear arms extended to the individual who was not part of a militia, instead of just being limited to those serving in a well regulated militia.<BR></DIV>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px">Paul<BR></DIV>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=hr contentEditable=false readonly="true"></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Ron Force <rforce2003@yahoo.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Moscow Vision2020 <vision2020@moscow.com> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday, January 20, 2013 2:09 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Vision2020] Happy gun violence day!<BR></FONT></DIV><WBR>
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<DIV><SPAN>Isn't this the discussion? What are the limits? Anton <SPAN id=misspell-4 class=mark>Scalia</SPAN>:</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV> <SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 21px; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia, Century, Times, serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: 15px">“So yes, there are some limitations that can be imposed," <SPAN id=misspell-5 class=mark>Scalia</SPAN> said. "What they are will depend on what the society understood were reasonable limitations at the time."</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 21px; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia, Century, Times, serif; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 15px; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: 15px; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0px">The conservative justice notably authored the Supreme Court's 2008 opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller, which ruled that the Second Amendment protects a person's right to bear arms and struck down a D.C. ban on handguns. The court also ruled, though, that "the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited."</DIV>
<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 21px; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia, Century, Times, serif; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 15px; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: 15px; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN id=misspell-6 class=mark>Scalia</SPAN> pointed out Sunday that that the Second Amendment "obviously" doesn't apply to weapons that can't be hand-carried, and modern-day weapons like "hand-held rocket launchers that can bring down airplanes" weren't factored in at the time of the writing of the Constitution.</DIV>
<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 21px; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia, Century, Times, serif; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 15px; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: 15px; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0px">“My starting point and probably my ending point will be what limitations are within the understood limitations that the society had at the time,” he said. “They had some limitations on the nature of arms that could be borne. So we’ll see what those limitations are as applied to modern weapons.”</DIV>
<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 21px; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia, Century, Times, serif; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 15px; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: 15px; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0px">Or, from another commentator (<SPAN id=misspell-7 class=mark>Ridenbaugh</SPAN> Press):</DIV>
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<DIV style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 1.3em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0.5em; PADDING-TOP: 0px">by <A style="BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(204,153,102) 1px dotted; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; COLOR: rgb(88,93,139); PADDING-TOP: 0px" title="Posts by Randy Stapilus" href="http://www.ridenbaugh.com/index.php/author/stapilus/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Randy Stapilus</A> under <A style="BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(204,153,102) 1px dotted; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; COLOR: rgb(88,93,139); PADDING-TOP: 0px" title="View all posts in Stapilus" href="http://www.ridenbaugh.com/index.php/category/stapilus/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Stapilus</A>.</DIV></DIV>
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<TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><FONT style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px" size=2 face=Georgia><B style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px">RANDY<BR style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px">STAPILUS</B><BR style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"> <BR style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><I style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px">The View<BR style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px">from Here</I></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<DIV style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 1.3em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0.5em; PADDING-TOP: 0px">Boise attorney John <SPAN id=misspell-13 class=mark>Runft</SPAN> has addressed a point that ought to be put to gun advocates coast to coast. But did he address it as they would – and has he thought through the implications?</DIV>
<DIV style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 1.3em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0.5em; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><A style="BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(204,153,102) 1px dotted; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; COLOR: rgb(88,93,139); PADDING-TOP: 0px" href="http://www.kivitv.com/news/local/187237131.html" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Interviewed on <SPAN id=misspell-14 class=mark>KIVI</SPAN>-TV in <SPAN id=misspell-15 class=mark>Nampa</SPAN></A>, he was enthusiastic in his discussion of the Second Amendment, saying there was even an “anti-government” aspect built into it. (I’d love to find the specific validation for that argument.)</DIV>
<DIV style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 1.3em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0.5em; PADDING-TOP: 0px">But he also acknowledged something that some gun advocates seem not to, that there are limits even to the Second Amendment: “Do you have the right to bear a bazooka? The right to bear an atomic bomb? Absolutely not.”</DIV>
<DIV style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 1.3em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0.5em; PADDING-TOP: 0px">No argument on that here. But I would argue this: Bazookas (<A style="BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(204,153,102) 1px dotted; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; COLOR: rgb(88,93,139); PADDING-TOP: 0px" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bazooka" rel=nofollow target=_blank>defined in <SPAN id=misspell-16 class=mark>Wikipedia</SPAN></A>: “a man-portable <SPAN id=misspell-17 class=mark>recoilless</SPAN> rocket antitank weapon, widely fielded by the US Army”) and nuclear weapons clear are “arms”. (Remember the nuclear arms race.) Not much question about that either.</DIV>
<DIV style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 1.3em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0.5em; PADDING-TOP: 0px">So: By <SPAN id=misspell-18 class=mark>Runft</SPAN>, it <I>is</I> okay to ban <I>some</I> arms. Next question: If we can ban bazookas from private use, why not semi-automatic weapons? From where comes the private constitutional right to possess one but not the other?</DIV>
<DIV style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 1.3em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0.5em; PADDING-TOP: 0px">A question, then, posed to any and all gun advocates: Should weaponry such as nuclear weapons and bazookas be allowed for private ownership in the United States? If not, why not, if your argument that a right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed?</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Ron Force<WBR>Moscow Idaho USA<WBR></DIV>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=hr contentEditable=false readonly="true"></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe@gmail.com> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> "vision2020@moscow.com" <vision2020@moscow.com>; "rhayes@frontier.com" <rhayes@frontier.com> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday, January 20, 2013 1:51 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Vision2020] Happy gun violence day!<BR></FONT></DIV><WBR>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">So what's an example of gun control legislation that you feel would not violate the 2<SPAN id=misspell-20 class=mark>nd</SPAN> Amendment?<WBR><WBR>Paul<WBR>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=hr contentEditable=false readonly="true"></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe@gmail.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> "rhayes@frontier.com" <rhayes@frontier.com>; "vision2020@moscow.com" <vision2020@moscow.com> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday, January 20, 2013 12:47 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Vision2020] Happy gun violence day!<BR></FONT></DIV><WBR>
<DIV id=yiv1569850422>I think we're talking passed one another. For one thing, I don't remember saying anytime recently that I was in favor of banning assault rifles, though I have discussed some arguments for or against it. For instance, in the post below the point is that gun control is not necessarily a violation of the 2<SPAN id=misspell-22 class=mark>nd</SPAN> amendment; that the NRA view is an absurd view. <WBR><WBR>Yet it seems that no matter what I say, or how careful I am to say it, you and others read into it some desire to ban guns. But it is consistent for one to think that (a) some forms of gun control are OK (in theory), even given our 2<SPAN id=misspell-23 class=mark>nd</SPAN> amendment rights, and (b) no particular form of gun control makes practical sense (for instance, assault rifles figure in a relatively small number of acts of gun violence, so banning them won't have a relevant impact). In fact, I have leanings toward (b), but it is
a complex issue. I lot of the stuff that Saundra and others have said makes me think more about it. In any event, (b) is logically unrelated to (a), though bad arguments against gun control confuse the two. As for (b), whether or not a particular form of gun control makes practical sense would need to be discussed on a case by case basis. Joe<WBR><WBR>
<DIV class=yiv1569850422gmail_quote>On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 7:21 PM, Paul Rumelhart <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<WBR>
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<DIV><WBR>Let's see. <WBR><WBR>1. When the Constitution was written, we'd just finished a war in which we rebelled against those in authority and claimed our independence as a nation for ourselves.<WBR><WBR>2. Shortly after that, we wrote our own Constitution, which describes the ways in which government is limited. No more royal decrees for us.<WBR><WBR>3. When adding the Bill of Rights, the restriction against infringing on our right to bear arms was added as the second such amendment, right after freedom of speech.<WBR><WBR>4. One assumes from this that the right to bear arms was indeed important to our forefathers. And not because they wanted us to hunt.<WBR><WBR>Given all that, I think it's reasonable to assume that the right in question shouldn't be infringed upon on a whim. Events like <SPAN id=misspell-25 class=mark>Newtown</SPAN> are rare, and each one gets splashed across the news for a month or
more because it's very dramatic. I don't like seeing children die either, but reducing magazine sizes to 10 rounds and removing scary-looking rifles while leaving just-as-functional rifles alone isn't going to stop the next spree shooting, even if it actually makes it's way into law. <SPAN id=misspell-26 class=mark>Klebold</SPAN> was on this tenth 10-round magazine when he killed himself. This guy that did <SPAN id=misspell-27 class=mark>Newtown</SPAN> would have had just as easy access to his mothers AR-15, since there is no way in hell they will pass something that will make people have to turn them in. An ineffective law passed only because people are riled up about kids getting shot isn't worth weakening the 2<SPAN id=misspell-28 class=mark>nd</SPAN> amendment, in my opinion.<WBR><WBR>I can get behind better background checks, well thought-out restrictions on people suspected of being mentally ill (that's a whole other can of
worms when we are talking about people's rights, but we should start the conversation), better data collection, and incentives to keep weapons secured and safe. Banning assault weapons, though, is a farce. It's a political ploy that's using people's fear and anger to pass something that makes it look like they are doing something that will help.<WBR><WBR>I'm not a member of the NRA, and I think they go way overboard sometimes. Still, I haven't seen them or anyone else trying to claim that gun ownership should be unrestricted. We already have gun registration, background checks, cooling off periods, and restrictions against actual assault weapons (i.e. fully automatic weapons).<WBR><WBR>Paul<WBR><WBR>On 01/19/2013 02:01 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:<WBR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">How is the second amendment under threat?<BR><BR>The NRA interpretation of the 2<SPAN id=misspell-29 class=mark>nd</SPAN> amendment is absurd. It is in fact so absurd that neither you nor anyone else would try to defend it in a public setting. Which is why this post will be followed by silence from you and others.<BR><BR>The idea that the right to own guns is UNRESTRICTED is absurd. NO rights are unrestricted. If speech can be restricted, then so can the sale and purchase of guns. And speech is and can be restricted.<BR><BR>If the NRA position has something to do with RIGHTS, then you should be able to name another right that is similarly unrestricted. But you can't. The NRA position has nothing to do with rights. It has to do with gun sales.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=yiv1569850422gmail_quote>On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Paul Rumelhart <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<WBR>
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<DIV><WBR>The nerve of those people! Having a rally in support of one of the amendments to the Constitution! How despicable! How <SPAN id=misspell-31 class=mark>un</SPAN>-American!<WBR><WBR>Paul<WBR><WBR>On 01/19/2013 09:32 AM, <A href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com">rhayes@frontier.com</A> wrote:<WBR></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN>Happy Gun Violence day today everyone! Hope you have a bang!</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <A href="mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com</A> <A href="mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com</A><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:06 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Vision2020 Digest, Vol 79, Issue 205<BR></FONT></DIV><WBR>Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to<WBR> <A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><WBR><WBR>To subscribe or <SPAN id=misspell-32 class=mark>unsubscribe</SPAN> via the World Wide Web, visit<WBR> <A href="http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020</A><WBR>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<WBR> <A href="mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com">vision2020-request@moscow.com</A><WBR><WBR>You can reach the person managing the list at<WBR> <A href="mailto:vision2020-owner@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vision2020-owner@moscow.com">vision2020-owner@moscow.com</A><WBR><WBR>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<WBR>than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."<WBR><WBR><WBR>Today's
Topics:<WBR><WBR> 1. Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day" (Ron Force)<WBR> 2. Re: Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day" (Tom Hansen)<WBR> 3. <SPAN id=misspell-33 class=mark>Caturday</SPAN> (January 19, 2013) (Tom Hansen)<WBR><WBR><WBR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<WBR><WBR>Message: 1<WBR>Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:40:44 -0800 (PST)<WBR>From: Ron Force <<A href="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com">rforce2003@yahoo.com</A>><WBR>To: Moscow Vision2020 <<A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>><WBR>Subject: [Vision2020] Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day"<WBR>Message-ID:<WBR> <<A href="mailto:1358570444.77938.YahooMailNeo@web162701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:1358570444.77938.YahooMailNeo@web162701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com">1358570444.77938.YahooMailNeo@web162701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com</A>><WBR>Content-Type: text/plain; <SPAN id=misspell-34 class=mark>charset</SPAN>="<SPAN id=misspell-35 class=mark>iso</SPAN>-8859-1"<WBR><WBR><A href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk</A><WBR><WBR>?<WBR>Ron Force<WBR>Moscow Idaho USA<WBR>-------------- next part --------------<WBR>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<WBR>URL: <A href="http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20130118/083e8bc1/attachment-0001.html" rel=nofollow target=_blank><http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20130118/083e8bc1/attachment-0001.html></A><WBR><WBR>------------------------------<WBR><WBR>Message: 2<WBR>Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:59:17 -0800<WBR>From: Tom Hansen <<A href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" rel=nofollow
target=_blank ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</A>><WBR>To: Ron Force <<A href="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com">rforce2003@yahoo.com</A>><WBR>Cc: Moscow Vision2020 <<A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>><WBR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day"<WBR>Message-ID: <<A href="mailto:CD416371-3602-4B0A-8D55-2B2508E88FB8@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:CD416371-3602-4B0A-8D55-2B2508E88FB8@moscow.com">CD416371-3602-4B0A-8D55-2B2508E88FB8@moscow.com</A>><WBR>Content-Type: text/plain; <SPAN id=misspell-36 class=mark>charset</SPAN>="us-<SPAN id=misspell-37 class=mark>ascii</SPAN>"<WBR><WBR><WBR><WBR>Gun Rally Planned This Weekend in <SPAN id=misspell-38 class=mark>Coeur</SPAN> <SPAN id=misspell-39
class=mark>d'Alene</SPAN><WBR><A href="http://tinyurl.com/agnm5kj" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://tinyurl.com/agnm5kj</A><WBR><WBR><SPAN id=misspell-40 class=mark>COEUR</SPAN> <SPAN id=misspell-41 class=mark>D'ALENE</SPAN>, Idaho (AP) - Gun advocates in northern Idaho are planning a rally and encouraging participants to openly carry weapons as allowed by Idaho law.<WBR> <WBR>The <SPAN id=misspell-42 class=mark>Coeur</SPAN> <SPAN id=misspell-43 class=mark>d'Alene</SPAN> Press reports (<A href="http://bit.ly/WdqSJr" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://bit.ly/WdqSJr</A>) that the Second Amendment rally and gun appreciation event is planned for 1 p.m. Saturday at Black Sheep Sporting Goods in <SPAN id=misspell-44 class=mark>Coeur</SPAN> <SPAN id=misspell-45 class=mark>d'Alene</SPAN>.<WBR> <WBR>Organizers say guest speakers include state lawmakers.<WBR><WBR>--------------------------------------<WBR><WBR><SPAN id=misspell-46
class=mark>Seeya</SPAN> round town, Moscow, because . . .<WBR><WBR>"Moscow Cares"<WBR><A href="http://www.moscowcares.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.moscowcares.com/</A><WBR> <WBR>Tom Hansen<WBR>Moscow, Idaho<WBR><WBR>"There's room at the top they are telling you still <WBR>But first you must learn how to smile as you kill <WBR>If you want to be like the folks on the hill."<WBR><WBR>- John Lennon<WBR><WBR><WBR>On Jan 18, 2013, at 8:40 PM, Ron Force <<A href="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com">rforce2003@yahoo.com</A>> wrote:<WBR><WBR>> <A href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk</A><WBR>> <WBR>> Ron Force<WBR>> Moscow Idaho USA<WBR>> =======================================================<WBR>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<WBR>> serving the
communities of the <SPAN id=misspell-47 class=mark>Palouse</SPAN> since 1994.<WBR>> <A href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net/</A><WBR>> <SPAN id=misspell-48 class=mark>mailto</SPAN>:<A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</A><WBR>> =======================================================<WBR>-------------- next part --------------<WBR>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<WBR>URL: <A href="http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20130118/7250b146/attachment-0001.html" rel=nofollow target=_blank><http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20130118/7250b146/attachment-0001.html></A><WBR><WBR>------------------------------<WBR><WBR>Message: 3<WBR>Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 06:06:20 -0800<WBR>From: Tom Hansen <<A
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</A>><WBR>To: Moscow Vision 2020 <<A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>><WBR>Subject: [Vision2020] <SPAN id=misspell-49 class=mark>Caturday</SPAN> (January 19, 2013)<WBR>Message-ID: <<A href="mailto:62F5B94C-846B-409E-9683-39CFBE887204@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:62F5B94C-846B-409E-9683-39CFBE887204@moscow.com">62F5B94C-846B-409E-9683-39CFBE887204@moscow.com</A>><WBR>Content-Type: text/plain; <SPAN id=misspell-50 class=mark>charset</SPAN>="<SPAN id=misspell-51 class=mark>utf</SPAN>-8"<WBR><WBR>Courtesy of Mail <SPAN id=misspell-52 class=mark>Online</SPAN> (London, England) at:<WBR><WBR><A
href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2263604/Tiny-obese-kitty-loses-HALF-body-weight-finds-new-home.html?printingPage=true" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2263604/Tiny-obese-kitty-loses-HALF-body-weight-finds-new-home.html?printingPage=true</A><WBR><WBR>-------------------------------------<WBR>Now that's something to purr about! Tiny the (very) fat cat loses HALF his body weight and finds a new home<WBR><WBR>Tiny started out at 30.2lbs - about three times the size of average cat<WBR>He was put on strict calorie-controlled diet<WBR>Lost half his body weight, now clocking in at 16lbs<WBR>Adopted by foster parent Nancy <SPAN id=misspell-53 class=mark>Garon</SPAN><WBR>Tiny the formerly obese cat has a lot to purr about these days.<WBR><WBR>Not only has he lost half his body weight, the orphaned feline has found a new home.<WBR><WBR>The pudgy pet was dumped outside the Fredericton SPCA in New Brunswick, Canada,
just over a year ago weighing a whopping 30lbs.<WBR><WBR>But, after sticking to a strict diet, the ironically-named feline is now fit and healthy and has been officially adopted by foster parent, Nancy <SPAN id=misspell-54 class=mark>Garon</SPAN>.<WBR><WBR><WBR><SPAN id=misspell-55 class=mark>Garon</SPAN> even threw an adoption party for Tiny on Saturday, dressing the noticeably more slender cat in a sparkly bow tie.<WBR><WBR>'It was a nice way to celebrate all the work, dedication and time that went into Tiny,' <SPAN id=misspell-56 class=mark>LeeAnn</SPAN> <SPAN id=misspell-57 class=mark>Haggerty</SPAN>, the director of education at the shelter.<WBR><WBR>'She's really bonded with him and it's nice for everyone to know that he'll be doing well in Nancy's care.'<WBR><WBR>The animal has a penchant or bow ties, which are made by some of the many volunteers who have tracked his weight loss progress on <SPAN id=misspell-58
class=mark>Facebook</SPAN>.<WBR><WBR><WBR>Donations and sales of <SPAN id=misspell-59 class=mark>Tiny's</SPAN> Ties have already raised $10,000 for the Fredericton SPCA, Today reported.<WBR><WBR>Tiny now ways 16 pounds and the weight loss has transformed his life.<WBR><WBR>'As soon as he lost the first six pounds you could start to see the changes,' <SPAN id=misspell-60 class=mark>Haggerty</SPAN> said. <WBR><WBR>To not be able to groom yourself <SPAN id=misspell-61 class=mark>must've</SPAN> been pretty frustrating. When he walked, he used to take a few steps, but now he runs all over the place. He is a very playful cat.'<WBR><WBR><WBR>In August, the cat had lost more than 10 pounds, weighing in at 19.1lbs. <SPAN id=misspell-62 class=mark>Haggerty</SPAN> said back then that it had taken a lot of hard work to bring <SPAN id=misspell-63 class=mark>Tiny's</SPAN> weight down to that point.<WBR><WBR>'When he came to the shelter, we knew this weight was a
medical emergency, really that obesity in pets can be fatal; his weight was quite a concern,' she told CBS News.<WBR><WBR>Tiny, who at that point was about three times the size of an average house cat, was taken to Dr Nicole <SPAN id=misspell-64 class=mark>Jewett</SPAN> at Valley Veterinary Hospital, who created a special calorie-controlled weight-loss plan for him at a foster home.<WBR><WBR><WBR>The drastic weight loss has been accompanied by a significant improvement in Tiny?s appearance and well-being, according to his veterinarian.<WBR><WBR>When the pet first arrived at the center, his coat and eyes were dull, and he could only make a few steps at a time before he would have to lie down. <WBR><WBR>Thanks to his new svelte physique, however, Tiny has become more playful and active. <WBR><WBR>'He runs, he plays ? it's amazing,' <SPAN id=misspell-65 class=mark>Haggerty</SPAN> said.<WBR><WBR><WBR>Another fringe benefit that came as a result of
<SPAN id=misspell-66 class=mark>Tiny's</SPAN> impressive slim-down is popularity.<WBR><WBR>Fans send in fabric to the SPCA, which they use to make the signature Tiny ties and sell them on the site <SPAN id=misspell-67 class=mark>Etsy</SPAN>.com to raise medical funds for animals.<WBR><WBR>According to <SPAN id=misspell-68 class=mark>Haggerty</SPAN>, about 40-60 per cent of North American pets are overweight, and in cats, it can lead to diabetes, arthritis, organ issues and even death.<WBR><WBR>--------------------<WBR><WBR>Fat cat: When Tiny arrived at the Fredericton SPCA, he weighed in at 30.2lbs, or about three times the size of an average house cat <WBR><WBR><WBR><WBR>--------------------<WBR><WBR>New life: Tiny, pictured, the formerly obese cat has found a new home after losing half his body weight<WBR><WBR><WBR><WBR>--------------------<WBR><WBR>Festive feline: Tiny, pictured, over the holidays is far more active now he's dropped the
weight<WBR><WBR><WBR><WBR>-------------------------------------<WBR><WBR><SPAN id=misspell-69 class=mark>Seeya</SPAN> round town, Moscow, because . . .<WBR><WBR>"Moscow Cares"<WBR><A href="http://www.moscowcares.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.moscowcares.com/</A><WBR> <WBR>Tom Hansen<WBR>Moscow, Idaho<WBR><WBR><WBR><WBR>-------------- next part --------------<WBR>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<WBR>URL: <<A href="http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20130119/cb4f2026/attachment.html" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20130119/cb4f2026/attachment.html</A>><WBR>-------------- next part --------------<WBR>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<WBR>Name: article-2192346-14A7C8AC000005DC-71_306x423.<SPAN id=misspell-70 class=mark>jpg</SPAN><WBR>Type: image/<SPAN id=misspell-71 class=mark>jpeg</SPAN><WBR>Size: 48122 bytes<WBR><SPAN id=misspell-72
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=======================================================</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><WBR></DIV><BR>=======================================================<BR> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR> serving the communities of the <SPAN id=misspell-84 class=mark>Palouse</SPAN> since 1994.<BR> <A href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net/</A><BR> <SPAN id=misspell-85 class=mark>mailto</SPAN>:<A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>=======================================================<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><WBR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><WBR></DIV><WBR><WBR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><WBR>=======================================================<WBR>List services made available by First Step Internet,<WBR>serving
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