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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
No, it's not a fact. "The sad fact is..." is just an expression,
I didn't mean for people to think that I had the ability to travel
between parallel universes. However, the focus has been on the
gun and not on the man. The shooter did this for A Reason. I
don't know what that reason was, but I find it hard to believe
that he would have been hampered by the lack of unfettered access
to an AR-15, had the ban been in place before his mother bought
the weapon. Assuming she didn't buy some other equivalent weapon
that didn't have a barrel shroud or a bayonet mount. Whatever
drove him to kill children would still have been there, minus the
AR-15. Chances are he would have used the shotgun or the hunting
rifle. Or just ran them over when they left. <br>
<br>
That's why I think it's silly to ban "assault weapons". It's just
an easy excuse to ignore the harder problems, like how to identify
people in that condition and what to do about it and how to handle
it without stepping all over people's rights.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 01/21/2013 12:06 PM, Sunil Ramalingam wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:BAY155-W281AEAA7363DD18418677ABD170@phx.gbl"
type="cite">
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Paul,<br>
<br>
You say, 'The sad fact is that if the assault weapons ban had
been in place, Newtown would have happened anyway.'<br>
<br>
How is this a fact? Do you have evidence that this young man
would have had the same access to the weapon if it were not in
his home? <br>
<br>
How is this not just your opinion? <br>
<br>
Sunil<br>
<br>
<div>
<hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:39:56 -0800<br>
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a><br>
CC: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com">rhayes@frontier.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Happy gun violence day!<br>
<br>
<div class="ecxmoz-cite-prefix"><br>
It's infringing upon a right that the Constitution itself
says cannot be infringed upon. So, in order to do so
anyway, it had damn well better be a very needed law. The
sad fact is that if the assault weapons ban had been in
place, Newtown would have happened anyway. The guy who did
that did it for a reason that was more complicated than "Hey
look! Here's an AR-15! There's nothing on Netflix, the
gym's closed, I'm climbing the walls here, maybe I should go
shoot some kids!"<br>
<br>
I have no doubt that you can buy a gun that works just as
well as an AR-15 but that doesn't have a pistol grip or a
flash suppressor now. Shortly after this ban, the
just-barely non-assault version of the rifle will come out.
The statistics will show that there was a drop in "assault
weapon" shootings, because the AR-15 mark II won't be
counted in them, and the politicians will try to con the
people into thinking they actually helped anything. This
ban is stupid. It's all political, and it's pointless in a
practical sense.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 01/19/2013 08:29 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:6B8DFFFF-948D-42D3-82F1-53422AA1A82F@gmail.com">
<div>This is long but let me make clear that there is a
considerable difference between the view that we shouldn't
impinge on rights on a whim and the view I was
criticizing. I think we're all in agreement that whims
won't do it.<br>
<br>
On Jan 19, 2013, at 7:21 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div><span></span></div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div class="ecxmoz-cite-prefix"><br>
Let's see. <br>
<br>
1. When the Constitution was written, we'd just
finished a war in which we rebelled against those in
authority and claimed our independence as a nation for
ourselves.<br>
<br>
2. Shortly after that, we wrote our own Constitution,
which describes the ways in which government is
limited. No more royal decrees for us.<br>
<br>
3. When adding the Bill of Rights, the restriction
against infringing on our right to bear arms was added
as the second such amendment, right after freedom of
speech.<br>
<br>
4. One assumes from this that the right to bear arms
was indeed important to our forefathers. And not
because they wanted us to hunt.<br>
<br>
Given all that, I think it's reasonable to assume that
the right in question shouldn't be infringed upon on a
whim. Events like Newtown are rare, and each one gets
splashed across the news for a month or more because
it's very dramatic. I don't like seeing children die
either, but reducing magazine sizes to 10 rounds and
removing scary-looking rifles while leaving
just-as-functional rifles alone isn't going to stop
the next spree shooting, even if it actually makes
it's way into law. Klebold was on this tenth 10-round
magazine when he killed himself. This guy that did
Newtown would have had just as easy access to his
mothers AR-15, since there is no way in hell they will
pass something that will make people have to turn them
in. An ineffective law passed only because people are
riled up about kids getting shot isn't worth weakening
the 2nd amendment, in my opinion.<br>
<br>
I can get behind better background checks, well
thought-out restrictions on people suspected of being
mentally ill (that's a whole other can of worms when
we are talking about people's rights, but we should
start the conversation), better data collection, and
incentives to keep weapons secured and safe. Banning
assault weapons, though, is a farce. It's a political
ploy that's using people's fear and anger to pass
something that makes it look like they are doing
something that will help.<br>
<br>
I'm not a member of the NRA, and I think they go way
overboard sometimes. Still, I haven't seen them or
anyone else trying to claim that gun ownership should
be unrestricted. We already have gun registration,
background checks, cooling off periods, and
restrictions against actual assault weapons (i.e.
fully automatic weapons).<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 01/19/2013 02:01 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+fbP8xro7ZU8V2nAfqGCG9ao6iu9xSdk_7xUwR3nHeFUQ_Okg@mail.gmail.com">How
is the second amendment under threat?<br>
<br>
The NRA interpretation of the 2nd amendment is absurd.
It is in fact so absurd that neither you nor anyone
else would try to defend it in a public setting. Which
is why this post will be followed by silence from you
and others.<br>
<br>
The idea that the right to own guns is UNRESTRICTED is
absurd. NO rights are unrestricted. If speech can be
restricted, then so can the sale and purchase of guns.
And speech is and can be restricted.<br>
<br>
If the NRA position has something to do with RIGHTS,
then you should be able to name another right that is
similarly unrestricted. But you can't. The NRA
position has nothing to do with rights. It has to do
with gun sales.<br>
<br>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at
11:11 AM, Paul Rumelhart <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote"
style="border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div><br>
The nerve of those people! Having a rally in
support of one of the amendments to the
Constitution! How despicable! How
un-American!<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 01/19/2013 09:32 AM, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com">rhayes@frontier.com</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif">
<div><span>Happy Gun Violence day today
everyone! Hope you have a bang!</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div style="font-family:times new
roman,new\00000d\00000a
york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial"> <b><span
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<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:06 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Vision2020 Digest, Vol 79, Issue 205<br>
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<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Saturday is "National Gun
Appreciation Day" (Ron Force)<br>
2. Re: Saturday is "National Gun
Appreciation Day" (Tom Hansen)<br>
3. Caturday (January 19, 2013) (Tom
Hansen)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:40:44 -0800
(PST)<br>
From: Ron Force <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com">rforce2003@yahoo.com</a>><br>
To: Moscow Vision2020 <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>
Subject: [Vision2020] Saturday is
"National Gun Appreciation Day"<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:1358570444.77938.YahooMailNeo@web162701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com">1358570444.77938.YahooMailNeo@web162701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com</a>><br>
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<br>
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target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk</a><br>
<br>
?<br>
Ron Force<br>
Moscow Idaho USA<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:59:17 -0800<br>
From: Tom Hansen <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>><br>
To: Ron Force <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com">rforce2003@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Cc: Moscow Vision2020 <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Saturday is
"National Gun Appreciation Day"<br>
Message-ID: <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:CD416371-3602-4B0A-8D55-2B2508E88FB8@moscow.com">CD416371-3602-4B0A-8D55-2B2508E88FB8@moscow.com</a>><br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
Gun Rally Planned This Weekend in Coeur
d'Alene<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://tinyurl.com/agnm5kj"
target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/agnm5kj</a><br>
<br>
COEUR D'ALENE, Idaho (AP) - Gun
advocates in northern Idaho are planning
a rally and encouraging participants to
openly carry weapons as allowed by Idaho
law.<br>
<br>
The Coeur d'Alene Press reports (<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://bit.ly/WdqSJr"
target="_blank">http://bit.ly/WdqSJr</a>)
that the Second Amendment rally and gun
appreciation event is planned for 1 p.m.
Saturday at Black Sheep Sporting Goods
in Coeur d'Alene.<br>
<br>
Organizers say guest speakers include
state lawmakers.<br>
<br>
--------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .<br>
<br>
"Moscow Cares"<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.MoscowCares.com"
target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a><br>
<br>
Tom Hansen<br>
Moscow, Idaho<br>
<br>
"There's room at the top they are
telling you still <br>
But first you must learn how to smile as
you kill <br>
If you want to be like the folks on the
hill."<br>
<br>
- John Lennon<br>
<br>
<br>
On Jan 18, 2013, at 8:40 PM, Ron Force
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com">rforce2003@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk"
target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk</a><br>
> <br>
> Ron Force<br>
> Moscow Idaho USA<br>
>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 06:06:20 -0800<br>
From: Tom Hansen <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>><br>
To: Moscow Vision 2020 <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>
Subject: [Vision2020] Caturday (January
19, 2013)<br>
Message-ID: <</div>
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