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Paul,<br><br>You say, 'The sad fact is that if
the assault weapons ban had been in place, Newtown would have
happened anyway.'<br><br>How is this a fact? Do you have evidence that this young man would have had the same access to the weapon if it were not in his home? <br><br>How is this not just your opinion? <br><br>Sunil<br><br><div><div id="SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:39:56 -0800<br>From: godshatter@yahoo.com<br>To: philosopher.joe@gmail.com<br>CC: vision2020@moscow.com; rhayes@frontier.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Happy gun violence day!<br><br>
<div class="ecxmoz-cite-prefix"><br>
It's infringing upon a right that the Constitution itself says
cannot be infringed upon. So, in order to do so anyway, it had
damn well better be a very needed law. The sad fact is that if
the assault weapons ban had been in place, Newtown would have
happened anyway. The guy who did that did it for a reason that
was more complicated than "Hey look! Here's an AR-15! There's
nothing on Netflix, the gym's closed, I'm climbing the walls here,
maybe I should go shoot some kids!"<br>
<br>
I have no doubt that you can buy a gun that works just as well as
an AR-15 but that doesn't have a pistol grip or a flash suppressor
now. Shortly after this ban, the just-barely non-assault version
of the rifle will come out. The statistics will show that there
was a drop in "assault weapon" shootings, because the AR-15 mark
II won't be counted in them, and the politicians will try to con
the people into thinking they actually helped anything. This ban
is stupid. It's all political, and it's pointless in a practical
sense.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 01/19/2013 08:29 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:6B8DFFFF-948D-42D3-82F1-53422AA1A82F@gmail.com">
<div>This is long but let me make clear that there is a
considerable difference between the view that we shouldn't
impinge on rights on a whim and the view I was criticizing. I
think we're all in agreement that whims won't do it.<br>
<br>
On Jan 19, 2013, at 7:21 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div><span></span></div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div class="ecxmoz-cite-prefix"><br>
Let's see. <br>
<br>
1. When the Constitution was written, we'd just finished a
war in which we rebelled against those in authority and
claimed our independence as a nation for ourselves.<br>
<br>
2. Shortly after that, we wrote our own Constitution, which
describes the ways in which government is limited. No more
royal decrees for us.<br>
<br>
3. When adding the Bill of Rights, the restriction against
infringing on our right to bear arms was added as the second
such amendment, right after freedom of speech.<br>
<br>
4. One assumes from this that the right to bear arms was
indeed important to our forefathers. And not because they
wanted us to hunt.<br>
<br>
Given all that, I think it's reasonable to assume that the
right in question shouldn't be infringed upon on a whim.
Events like Newtown are rare, and each one gets splashed
across the news for a month or more because it's very
dramatic. I don't like seeing children die either, but
reducing magazine sizes to 10 rounds and removing
scary-looking rifles while leaving just-as-functional rifles
alone isn't going to stop the next spree shooting, even if
it actually makes it's way into law. Klebold was on this
tenth 10-round magazine when he killed himself. This guy
that did Newtown would have had just as easy access to his
mothers AR-15, since there is no way in hell they will pass
something that will make people have to turn them in. An
ineffective law passed only because people are riled up
about kids getting shot isn't worth weakening the 2nd
amendment, in my opinion.<br>
<br>
I can get behind better background checks, well thought-out
restrictions on people suspected of being mentally ill
(that's a whole other can of worms when we are talking about
people's rights, but we should start the conversation),
better data collection, and incentives to keep weapons
secured and safe. Banning assault weapons, though, is a
farce. It's a political ploy that's using people's fear and
anger to pass something that makes it look like they are
doing something that will help.<br>
<br>
I'm not a member of the NRA, and I think they go way
overboard sometimes. Still, I haven't seen them or anyone
else trying to claim that gun ownership should be
unrestricted. We already have gun registration, background
checks, cooling off periods, and restrictions against actual
assault weapons (i.e. fully automatic weapons).<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 01/19/2013 02:01 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CA+fbP8xro7ZU8V2nAfqGCG9ao6iu9xSdk_7xUwR3nHeFUQ_Okg@mail.gmail.com">How is the second amendment under threat?<br>
<br>
The NRA interpretation of the 2nd amendment is absurd. It is
in fact so absurd that neither you nor anyone else would try
to defend it in a public setting. Which is why this post
will be followed by silence from you and others.<br>
<br>
The idea that the right to own guns is UNRESTRICTED is
absurd. NO rights are unrestricted. If speech can be
restricted, then so can the sale and purchase of guns. And
speech is and can be restricted.<br>
<br>
If the NRA position has something to do with RIGHTS, then
you should be able to name another right that is similarly
unrestricted. But you can't. The NRA position has nothing to
do with rights. It has to do with gun sales.<br>
<br>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 11:11 AM,
Paul Rumelhart <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div><br>
The nerve of those people! Having a rally in
support of one of the amendments to the
Constitution! How despicable! How un-American!<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 01/19/2013 09:32 AM, <a href="mailto:rhayes@frontier.com">rhayes@frontier.com</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif">
<div><span>Happy Gun Violence day today everyone!
Hope you have a bang!</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div style="font-family:times new roman,new\00000d\00000a york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
<a href="mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com">"vision2020-request@moscow.com"</a>
<a href="mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com"><vision2020-request@moscow.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:06 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Vision2020 Digest, Vol 79, Issue 205<br>
</font> </div>
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<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation
Day" (Ron Force)<br>
2. Re: Saturday is "National Gun
Appreciation Day" (Tom Hansen)<br>
3. Caturday (January 19, 2013) (Tom Hansen)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:40:44 -0800 (PST)<br>
From: Ron Force <<a href="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com">rforce2003@yahoo.com</a>><br>
To: Moscow Vision2020 <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>
Subject: [Vision2020] Saturday is "National
Gun Appreciation Day"<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:1358570444.77938.YahooMailNeo@web162701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com">1358570444.77938.YahooMailNeo@web162701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com</a>><br>
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<br>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk</a><br>
<br>
?<br>
Ron Force<br>
Moscow Idaho USA<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:59:17 -0800<br>
From: Tom Hansen <<a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>><br>
To: Ron Force <<a href="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com">rforce2003@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Cc: Moscow Vision2020 <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Saturday is
"National Gun Appreciation Day"<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:CD416371-3602-4B0A-8D55-2B2508E88FB8@moscow.com">CD416371-3602-4B0A-8D55-2B2508E88FB8@moscow.com</a>><br>
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<br>
<br>
Gun Rally Planned This Weekend in Coeur
d'Alene<br>
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/agnm5kj" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/agnm5kj</a><br>
<br>
COEUR D'ALENE, Idaho (AP) - Gun advocates in
northern Idaho are planning a rally and
encouraging participants to openly carry
weapons as allowed by Idaho law.<br>
<br>
The Coeur d'Alene Press reports (<a href="http://bit.ly/WdqSJr" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/WdqSJr</a>)
that the Second Amendment rally and gun
appreciation event is planned for 1 p.m.
Saturday at Black Sheep Sporting Goods in
Coeur d'Alene.<br>
<br>
Organizers say guest speakers include state
lawmakers.<br>
<br>
--------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .<br>
<br>
"Moscow Cares"<br>
<a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a><br>
<br>
Tom Hansen<br>
Moscow, Idaho<br>
<br>
"There's room at the top they are telling you
still <br>
But first you must learn how to smile as you
kill <br>
If you want to be like the folks on the hill."<br>
<br>
- John Lennon<br>
<br>
<br>
On Jan 18, 2013, at 8:40 PM, Ron Force <<a href="mailto:rforce2003@yahoo.com">rforce2003@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk</a><br>
> <br>
> Ron Force<br>
> Moscow Idaho USA<br>
>
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<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 06:06:20 -0800<br>
From: Tom Hansen <<a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>><br>
To: Moscow Vision 2020 <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>
Subject: [Vision2020] Caturday (January 19,
2013)<br>
Message-ID: <</div>
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