Just to be clear, my view is that guns in schools would be more dangerous than not, in part because the risk of shooters is slim and there is always a risk when guns are present. The possibility that guns in schools might make them targets is one risk but that needs to be assessed. I'm not saying I'm certain that that would be the case.<br>
<br>I'm curious about the "some people are evil" claim but it is just a philosophical curiosity. Are they born evil? If so, then it isn't their fault. Do they become evil? I have a hard time seeing how, either way, the person could be responsible for their actions. My view is not that no one is responsible for anything. Given that these folks have mental disorders and are generally too young to have fully developed brains (even if they didn't have mental disorders), and thus can hardly be held accountable for becoming "evil," I can't see how the people are evil, though clearly what they do is evil.<br>
<br>But this is a philosophical concern and neither here nor there. The debate should be about the best solution to lowering gun violence and bringing peace and security to school children and their parents. Where it is relevant is that any solution is going to have to get the causal factors right. Putting too much emphasis on evils that don't exist might result in the wrong solution. <br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Gary Crabtree <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com" target="_blank">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<u></u>
<div style="PADDING-LEFT:10px;PADDING-RIGHT:10px;PADDING-TOP:15px" name="Compose message area">
<div><font face="Calibri">My view is that some people are crazy and evil and that
in many if not most cases there is no answer to the because/why questions.
</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri">No article you or Wayne or anyone else has made it clear
to me how allowing willing teachers with CWP's would make schools any more of a
target then they are now in that the potential shooter would have no way of
knowing who if anyone at a school might be armed. Is this the be all and end all
solution to the problem, of course not. But it does seem like a small reasonable
start.</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri">g</font></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt Tahoma">
<div><br></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">Joe Campbell</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 01, 2013 4:59 PM</div><div><div class="h5">
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com" target="_blank">Gary Crabtree</a> </div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a title="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm" target="_blank">Saundra Lund</a> ; <a title="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com" target="_blank">Gary Crabtree</a> ; <a title="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">viz</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Huh?</div></div></div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<div><br></div>You need to do some research. Actually there have been several
informative articles posted recently on the V by Art Deco, myself, and others
that do a much better job of explaining the point I'm making.<br><br>Suicide is
not the only goal. Most of these folks have "empathy issues" (inability to feel
or appreciate the pain of others) and feel that they have been wronged by
society or others (and are thus justified in seeking revenge) in addition to
being suicidal, which would explain why they don't attack police stations
etc.<br><br>What is your view? Some people are just bad, so they decide to talk
their mother's guns and shoot up a bunch of school children so they can
...<br><br>How do YOU fill in the ellipses?<br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Gary Crabtree <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com" target="_blank">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><u></u>
<div style="PADDING-LEFT:10px;PADDING-RIGHT:10px;PADDING-TOP:15px" name="Compose message area">
<div>
<div>"The point was that if potential shooters know that schools and other
public venues will now have armed guards on hand, then it make have the wrong
effect. It might be that potential shooters are MORE likely to flock to public
venues; it might cause the number of shooting instances to rise instead of
lowering those instances. Saundra made this initially and I think she's right.
We need to do more research etc. before jumping to the conclusion that armed
guards are the answer."</div></div>
<div><br><font face="Arial">This really doesn't make all that much sense. Events
such as those we are discussing don't often occur at police stations or
sheriffs departments. I've yet to hear of a similar situation occurring at a
gun show or a rifle/pistol range. It seems that when the deranged decide to go
on their spree they go where they can rack up high numbers and schools are
prime targets. That said I disagree with the NRA in regard to putting an armed
man in every school. Given the low probability of any given school suffering a
mass shooting event it would be a total over-reaction. Allowing willing school
personnel with CWP's to carry on the job however strikes me as a reasonable
thing. A "gun free zone" policy and a placard at every entrance
has proven to be ineffective in deterring shootings. Apparently the crazy
don't stop to read signs.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">On a slightly different note, amid the furor to
reinstate and expand upon "assault weapons" bans please see:</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><a title="http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495" target="_blank">http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495</a><br></div>
<div><font face="Arial">Amazing how much traction this addition piece of
information isn't getting. If the dread assault rifle and hi-cap
magazines weren't a factor at the Sandy Hook incident, what should those
folks who have a serious case of do something disease fall back on?
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">g</font></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt Tahoma">
<div><font face="Calibri" size="3"></font><br></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">Joe Campbell</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 01, 2013 1:06 PM</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com" target="_blank">Gary Crabtree</a> </div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a title="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm" target="_blank">Saundra Lund</a> ; <a title="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com" target="_blank">Gary Crabtree</a> ; <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">viz</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Huh?</div></div></div></div></div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br></div>The point was that if potential shooters know that schools and
other public venues will now have armed guards on hand, then it make have the
wrong effect. It might be that potential shooters are MORE likely to flock to
public venues; it might cause the number of shooting instances to rise instead
of lowering those instances. Saundra made this initially and I think she's
right. We need to do more research etc. before jumping to the conclusion that
armed guards are the answer.<br><br>You are correct that there have been cases
in which armed citizens have "saved the day." There is also the Moscow case,
where the young stud ran out in an effort to "help." I'm certain if you asked
any police official whether he did more harm than good, they'd say more harm
and would discourage such actions. But the fact is that this is a debatable
issue. I've actually stated my view on the topic previously but I'll do so
again. I'm sure I post too much for anyone to possibly keep up!<br><br>Guns
can help but guns also carry risks. If we're talking about armed citizens, who
need not have any particular training with firearms or dangerous situations,
the risk factor will certainly go up. Based on the information I've seen the
key question is, What is the probability that a gun will be needed for
protection? If it is relatively high -- if you are a police officer, or a drug
dealer, or a prostitute, or live in an area with a high rate of gun violence
-- then the benefits of having your own gun will likely outweigh the risks. If
the chance of gun violence is relatively low -- as it is in Moscow, or in say
a school building -- then the risks will likely outweigh the benefits. Since,
as you and others continually point out, shootings by mass killers are
relatively rare, introducing more guns into areas that are relatively safe --
like schools -- will likely increase gun accidents rather than save lives. It
seems like a bad idea, based on everything that I've read.<br><br>Best,
Joe<br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Gary Crabtree <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com" target="_blank">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><u></u>
<div style="PADDING-LEFT:10px;PADDING-RIGHT:10px;PADDING-TOP:15px" name="Compose message area">
<div><font face="Calibri">I don't understand what a shooters suicidal
tendencies would have to do with anything. Dead sooner via bystanders
intervention beats dead later via self inflicted wound with a larger body
count. As to your second point, I can recall having read of armed citizens
effectively intervening in various situations to good effect. Granted I know
of no instance with regard to a mass shooting where an armed citizen
saved the day but I do not remember an instance where such action made
things worse. </font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri">g</font></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt Tahoma">
<div><br></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="philosopher.joe@gmail.com" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">Joe Campbell</a>
</div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 01, 2013 10:02 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com" target="_blank">Gary Crabtree</a> </div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a title="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm" target="_blank">Saundra Lund</a> ; <a title="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com" target="_blank">Gary Crabtree</a> ; <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">viz</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Huh?</div></div></div>
<div><br></div>An undeniably valid point is that most shooters in mass
killings are suicidal. Most of them kill themselves or attempt to kill
themselves after killing others. There is no reason more reason to think
that it will help the situation than there is to think that it will make
matters worse.<br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Gary Crabtree <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com" target="_blank">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><u></u>
<div style="PADDING-LEFT:10px;PADDING-RIGHT:10px;PADDING-TOP:15px" name="Compose message area" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<div><font face="Calibri"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">I
dunno, Gary – if you think my response was “extra unpleasant” for pointing
out the sheer lunacy of the proposal, I think you need to read some of
your own responses . . . and grow the thicker skin as you seem to expect
from others."</span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000">I don't expect much of anything from others and as your
pal tom has pointed out, my skin is more than adequately thick.
I was simply pointing out that charging out of the chute
with your shrill fishwife demeanor might be less then conducive
to dialog. I know I certainly find it off putting, perhaps in your circles
it's considered charming. Either way, I was just asking and now the
answer is clear.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000"></font></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">And,
WTG! Completely ignore the valid points I raise. I guess
that’s the only response you could make given the unmitigated and
uncountable instances in which the mere presence of guns hasn’t stopped
shooters, spree & otherwise.</span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"></span></font></span> </p>
<span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Did
you know, for instance, that there was someone <b>right there</b> carrying
a gun in the Tucson massacre, yet <b>unarmed</b> people had the shooter
controlled before the heat-packing dude could do a
thing?<u></u><u></u></span></p></span></font></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"></span></font></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"></span></span></font></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"></span></p></font>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000">I provided no response because your point is anything but
valid. Of course there will be instances where good guys with firearms
won't carry the day in that they can't be everywhere. Did the fellow you
refer to in Tucson or the armed individuals at Columbine make the
situation worse? There are countless situations where an armed response by
a responsible citizen has saved lives, their own and those of
others. Trying to make the argument that since they can't be the
perfect solution in every instance, they can't be the solution in any
instance is faulty logic in the extreme.</font></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000"></font></span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000">g</font></span></span></p>
</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt Tahoma">
<div><font face="Calibri" size="3"></font><br></div></div></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt Tahoma">
<div><br></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm" target="_blank">Saundra Lund</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 31, 2012 10:16 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com" target="_blank">'Gary Crabtree'</a> ; <a title="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com" target="_blank">'Gary Crabtree'</a>
; <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">'viz'</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Vision2020] Huh?</div></div></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">I
dunno, Gary – if you think my response was “extra unpleasant” for pointing
out the sheer lunacy of the proposal, I think you need to read some of
your own responses . . . and grow the thicker skin as you seem to expect
from others.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">And,
WTG! Completely ignore the valid points I raise. I guess
that’s the only response you could make given the unmitigated and
uncountable instances in which the mere presence of guns hasn’t stopped
shooters, spree & otherwise.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Did
you know, for instance, that there was someone <b>right there</b> carrying
a gun in the Tucson massacre, yet <b>unarmed</b> people had the shooter
controlled before the heat-packing dude could do a
thing?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Yet
another inconvenient fact, eh?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Saundra<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<div>
<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"> Gary Crabtree
[mailto:<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com" target="_blank">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday,
December 22, 2012 6:38 AM<br><b>To:</b> Saundra Lund; 'Gary Crabtree';
'viz'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020]
Huh?<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'">I
thought the point here was to discuss options. Do you imagine that being
extra unpleasant lends an extra level of credence to your point of view?
</span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'">g</span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p></div>
<div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND:whitesmoke" class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"> <a title="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm" target="_blank">Saundra Lund</a>
<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND:whitesmoke" class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt">Sent:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"> Friday,
December 21, 2012 8:18 PM<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND:whitesmoke" class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt">To:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"> <a title="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com" target="_blank">'Gary Crabtree'</a>
; <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">'viz'</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND:whitesmoke" class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt">Subject:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"> Re:
[Vision2020] Huh?<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">It
worked soo well at Columbine, didn’t it?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Confrontation
by the armed officer on campus & the exchange of fire drove one
of the shooters <b>back into the school</b> to continue the
slaughter. There’s a stellar success!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Oops
– but don’t confuse you with reality & facts,
right?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Saundra<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"> <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a> [<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Gary Crabtree<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 21, 2012 1:40
PM<br><b>To:</b> Joe Campbell<br><b>Cc:</b> viz<br><b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Vision2020] Huh?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p></div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Training to become a cop in Idaho is 10 weeks making
time not much of an issue. There are quite a few things covered in POST
that a school guard would not need training in (pursuit driving, crime
scene investigation, etc. ) further reducing the time needed to get
qualified people in place. Utilizing vets who were MP's or members of
security detachments along with retired police officers would be prime
candidates for positions such as this.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">All entry doors in a facility could be easily modified
to emergency exit only except for one. This would make it so all visitors
would be funneled through one door and past one armed
guard.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I really don't see what make this idea so unworkable
other then the fact that it doesn't jibe very well with the anti-gun
agenda.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">g<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div>
<div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:12pt" class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Joe Campbell <<a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:12pt" class="MsoNormal">Scott,<br><br>There was an
Assistant Director of the FBI on CNN today explaining why this cannot be
implemented. Think of the training required before you release folks with
guns onto school campuses. Then think of the number of schools, the number
of doors to the school that would need to be guarded, the costs of
training and hiring an education militia, and the number of qualified
people available for those positions. This is a bad idea that does not
stand a chance of getting passed. Forget about it and move on to some
actual solution.<br><br>Best, Joe<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Scott Dredge <<a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com" target="_blank">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:12pt" class="MsoNormal">Armed security is something
that could be implemented, regulated, and enforced much more easily than
gun control, gun bans, etc. Armed security guards could be subjected
to more rigorous background and mental heath checks plus mandatory
training and licensing without having that pesky 2nd Amendment coming into
the mix. Somewhat similar to how we supposedly have air marshalls on
some flights. This might be one of the very few things that the
Republicans would actually be OK to put on the fragile shoulders of tax
paying individuals and businesses.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="TEXT-ALIGN:center" class="MsoNormal" align="center">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">From: <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" target="_blank">thansen@moscow.com</a><br>Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 09:36:59
-0800<br>To: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>Subject: [Vision2020]
Huh?<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:12pt" class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">"Before Congress reconvenes, before we engage in any
lengthy debate over legislation, regulation or anything else, as soon as
our kids return to school after the holiday break, we need to have every
single school in America immediately deploy a protection program proven to
work — and by that I mean armed security."<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- Wayne LaPierre, Executive Vice President of the
National Rifle Association (December 21, 2012)<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:10.5pt"><a href="http://tinyurl.com/cphq5lp" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/cphq5lp</a></span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">------------------------------------<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Seeya round town, Moscow, because . .
.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">"Moscow Cares"<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tom Hansen<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Moscow, Idaho<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br></p>
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</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br>