An undeniably valid point is that most shooters in mass killings are suicidal. Most of them kill themselves or attempt to kill themselves after killing others. There is no reason more reason to think that it will help the situation than there is to think that it will make matters worse.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Gary Crabtree <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com" target="_blank">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<u></u>
<div style="PADDING-LEFT:10px;PADDING-RIGHT:10px;PADDING-TOP:15px" link="blue" vlink="purple" name="Compose message area" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<div><font face="Calibri"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">I
dunno, Gary – if you think my response was “extra unpleasant” for pointing out
the sheer lunacy of the proposal, I think you need to read some of your own
responses . . . and grow the thicker skin as you seem to expect from
others."</span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000">I don't expect much of anything from others and as your pal
tom has pointed out, my skin is more than adequately thick. I
was simply pointing out that charging out of the chute with your
shrill fishwife demeanor might be less then conducive to dialog. I know I
certainly find it off putting, perhaps in your circles it's considered
charming. Either way, I was just asking and now the answer is
clear.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000"></font></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">And,
WTG! Completely ignore the valid points I raise. I guess that’s the
only response you could make given the unmitigated and uncountable instances in
which the mere presence of guns hasn’t stopped shooters, spree &
otherwise.</span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"></span></font></span> </p>
<span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Did
you know, for instance, that there was someone <b>right there</b> carrying a gun
in the Tucson massacre, yet <b>unarmed</b> people had the shooter controlled
before the heat-packing dude could do a
thing?<u></u><u></u></span></p></span></font></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"></span></font></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"> </span></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"></span></p></font>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000">I provided no response because your point is anything but valid.
Of course there will be instances where good guys with firearms won't carry the
day in that they can't be everywhere. Did the fellow you refer to in Tucson or
the armed individuals at Columbine make the situation worse? There are
countless situations where an armed response by a responsible citizen has saved
lives, their own and those of others. Trying to make the argument that
since they can't be the perfect solution in every instance, they can't be the
solution in any instance is faulty logic in the
extreme.</font></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000"></font></span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font color="#000000">g</font></span></span></p>
</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt Tahoma">
<div><font face="Calibri" size="3"></font><br></div></div></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt Tahoma">
<div><br></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm" target="_blank">Saundra Lund</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 31, 2012 10:16 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com" target="_blank">'Gary Crabtree'</a> ; <a title="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com" target="_blank">'Gary Crabtree'</a> ; <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">'viz'</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Vision2020] Huh?</div></div></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">I
dunno, Gary – if you think my response was “extra unpleasant” for pointing out
the sheer lunacy of the proposal, I think you need to read some of your own
responses . . . and grow the thicker skin as you seem to expect from
others.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">And,
WTG! Completely ignore the valid points I raise. I guess that’s the
only response you could make given the unmitigated and uncountable instances in
which the mere presence of guns hasn’t stopped shooters, spree &
otherwise.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Did
you know, for instance, that there was someone <b>right there</b> carrying a gun
in the Tucson massacre, yet <b>unarmed</b> people had the shooter controlled
before the heat-packing dude could do a thing?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Yet
another inconvenient fact, eh?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Saundra<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"> Gary Crabtree
[mailto:<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com" target="_blank">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 22, 2012 6:38
AM<br><b>To:</b> Saundra Lund; 'Gary Crabtree'; 'viz'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Vision2020] Huh?<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div class="im">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'">I thought
the point here was to discuss options. Do you imagine that being extra
unpleasant lends an extra level of credence to your point of view?
</span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'">g</span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND:whitesmoke" class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"> <a title="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm" target="_blank">Saundra Lund</a>
<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND:whitesmoke" class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt">Sent:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"> Friday, December
21, 2012 8:18 PM<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND:whitesmoke" class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt">To:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"> <a title="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com" target="_blank">'Gary Crabtree'</a> ; <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">'viz'</a>
<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND:whitesmoke" class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt">Subject:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"> Re: [Vision2020]
Huh?<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">It
worked soo well at Columbine, didn’t it?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Confrontation
by the armed officer on campus & the exchange of fire drove one of the
shooters <b>back into the school</b> to continue the slaughter. There’s a
stellar success!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Oops
– but don’t confuse you with reality & facts, right?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Saundra<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"> <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>
[<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Gary Crabtree<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 21, 2012 1:40
PM<br><b>To:</b> Joe Campbell<br><b>Cc:</b> viz<br><b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Vision2020] Huh?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div><div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Training to become a cop in Idaho is 10 weeks making time not
much of an issue. There are quite a few things covered in POST that a school
guard would not need training in (pursuit driving, crime scene investigation,
etc. ) further reducing the time needed to get qualified people in place.
Utilizing vets who were MP's or members of security detachments along with
retired police officers would be prime candidates for positions such as
this.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div class="im">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">All entry doors in a facility could be easily modified to
emergency exit only except for one. This would make it so all visitors would be
funneled through one door and past one armed guard.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I really don't see what make this idea so unworkable other
then the fact that it doesn't jibe very well with the anti-gun
agenda.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">g<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div>
<div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:12pt" class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div><div class="im">
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Joe Campbell <<a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" target="_blank">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:12pt" class="MsoNormal">Scott,<br><br>There was an
Assistant Director of the FBI on CNN today explaining why this cannot be
implemented. Think of the training required before you release folks with guns
onto school campuses. Then think of the number of schools, the number of doors
to the school that would need to be guarded, the costs of training and hiring an
education militia, and the number of qualified people available for those
positions. This is a bad idea that does not stand a chance of getting passed.
Forget about it and move on to some actual solution.<br><br>Best,
Joe<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><div class="im">
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Scott Dredge <<a href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com" target="_blank">scooterd408@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div>
<div><div class="im">
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:12pt" class="MsoNormal">Armed security is something that
could be implemented, regulated, and enforced much more easily than gun control,
gun bans, etc. Armed security guards could be subjected to more rigorous
background and mental heath checks plus mandatory training and licensing without
having that pesky 2nd Amendment coming into the mix. Somewhat similar to
how we supposedly have air marshalls on some flights. This might be one of
the very few things that the Republicans would actually be OK to put on the
fragile shoulders of tax paying individuals and businesses.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><div class="im">
<div style="TEXT-ALIGN:center" class="MsoNormal" align="center">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">From: <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" target="_blank">thansen@moscow.com</a><br>Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 09:36:59
-0800<br>To: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>Subject: [Vision2020]
Huh?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:12pt" class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div><div class="im">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">"Before Congress reconvenes, before we engage in any lengthy
debate over legislation, regulation or anything else, as soon as our kids return
to school after the holiday break, we need to have every single school in
America immediately deploy a protection program proven to work — and by that I
mean armed security."<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- Wayne LaPierre, Executive Vice President of the
National Rifle Association (December 21, 2012)<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:10.5pt"><a href="http://tinyurl.com/cphq5lp" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/cphq5lp</a></span><u></u><u></u></p></div>
</div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">------------------------------------<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .<u></u><u></u></p><div class="im">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">"Moscow Cares"<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.MoscowCares.com" target="_blank">http://www.MoscowCares.com</a><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tom Hansen<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Moscow, Idaho<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div class="im">
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