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<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>.</FONT>"I'm ready to talk and I can talk without
insulting anyone. Can either of you? Is it even possible for Scott, Paul, or
Gary to have a conversation without insulting someone, or making the kinds of
unsupported general claims in these two posts? This is not an insult, it is a
challenge."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>And yet it came across as vaguely insulting none
the less. Looking back through the posts directed to you from me on this
topic I see no insults (or unsupported claims for that matter) anywhere,
certainly none that were intended. Considering some of our previous
discussions from times gone by, I have tried very hard to avoid setting off the
chain of events that inevitably leads to the usual dreary outcome.
Since you contend that there is insult in my every conversation, it should be
easy to provide the examples from my last ten conversations with you.
Do that, and I'll readily admit my error and apologize, I really don't
believe that you can. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I must say that in a post where you
take others to task for their being overly general and not providing
sufficient examples to back up assertions, you seem to paint with an
unusually broad brush and your specificity is woefully
lacking.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>One last thing, lumping me in with Paul and Scott
has got to be lowering their self-esteem. Is that intentional?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV><FONT face=Calibri>
<DIV><BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">Joe Campbell</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 31, 2012 1:53 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=scooterd408@hotmail.com
href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">Scott Dredge</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">viz</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] [link added] We, Intoleristas . .
.</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Scott,<BR><BR>Can you give some specific examples? Or is it just
enough to say "This is happening"? <BR><BR>Wilson says "But they would rather
not talk at all, and so they resort quite quickly to the instruments of
harassment and coercion" to which Scott responds "This is happening."
<BR><BR>Please support your claim. If "they" -- meaning progressives, liberals,
or Intoleristas -- "resort quickly to the instruments of harassment and
coercion" you must have plenty of cases to back up your claim, enough to support
the claim that "they" are doing, as opposed to a select few. Please give those
examples and make sure you have enough of them to support this very general,
over-the-top claim.<BR><BR>Or maybe Paul could provide evidence backing up this
claim: "I would like to point out that it's the liberals on this list (or
'Intoleristas', if you prefer) that come across as the most dogmatic of the two
main groups on this list (Intoleristas/liberals vs. conservatives/Christ Church
members)." Come across as dogmatic to whom? And how many liberals come across as
dogmatic? Why not name 10 since there are enough, on your view to make such a
general claim.<BR><BR>Paul also writes: "It was the Intoleristas that spent a
lot of time and effort trying to convince me that boycotting businesses run by
Christ Church members wasn't somehow intolerant of another religion." Please be
sure to name the Intoleristas that "spent a lot of time and effort trying to
convince" you to boycott Christ Church businesses? Be specific. Name enough of
them to justify this slander of a whole group of people who happen to disagree
with your views.<BR><BR>And of course "No conservative has ever told [you, Paul]
that [you] shouldn't make posts of a certain type." Why should they? You are
there mouthpiece.<BR><BR>The two posts are ironic because I've posted a slew of
questions about gun control over the last few weeks, asking some straightforward
questions and trying to engage in thoughtful discussion. None of the questions
received any serious answers. There were some sarcastic posts by Paul but no
serious attempt to engage in discussion. <BR><BR>I've refuted several arguments
given by conservatives on this these issues but guess what? Conservatives keep
using those bad arguments anyway, without attempting to respond to them. I can't
count the times that Paul or Gary or others, for instance, have jumped from
"let's talk about gun control" to "let's ban all firearms."<BR><BR>I'm ready to
talk and I can talk without insulting anyone. Can either of you? Is it even
possible for Scott, Paul, or Gary to have a conversation without insulting
someone, or making the kinds of unsupported general claims in these two posts?
This is not an insult, it is a challenge.<BR><BR>Joe<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Scott Dredge <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com"
target=_blank>scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>It's got some substance Dr. Gier, you just need to cut through a
lot of Doug's crap to see some of it:<BR><BR><Everything goes great in this
world of monochrome diversity until someone actually disagrees with them in
their town><BR>This happened.<BR><BR><They cannot handle disagreement
and debate, and so to the extent that they have to talk at all they resort
immediately to shrill invective.><BR>This is still happening and you can
see it in the threads about 'gun control & the NRA' and 'global
warming'.<BR><BR><But they would rather not talk at all, and so they resort
quite quickly to the instruments of harassment and coercion.><BR>This is
happening.<BR><BR><This is what has happened in every place in the world
where they have had their way.><BR>This is true. Might makes
right. We're lucky to live in a country where individual rights are
protected against mob rule.<BR><BR><These people we are up against are as
intolerant as it gets. While I grant they are not as dangerous as they used to
be, they are certainly as noisy as they used to be.><BR>Intolerance cuts
both ways. Atheists can be just as intolerant and Fundy religious
types. Again, we're lucky to live in a country where individual rights
are protected against mob rule.<BR><BR>As for your comment that <FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><[Doug's] is a very narrow world indeed</FONT>>,
I agree with this as it's quite obvious. Even so, Doug and his gullible
flock deserve the exact same Constitutional rights and protections as everyone
else even though they doesn't believe in the Constitution and do not believe
in an egalitarian society.<BR><BR><<FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Happy New
Year to all beings> I <FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">couldn't agree more.
:)</FONT></FONT><BR><BR>-Scott<BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<HR>
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 10:45:59 -0800<BR>From: <A
href="mailto:ngier@uidaho.edu" target=_blank>ngier@uidaho.edu</A><BR>To: <A
href="mailto:moscowcares@moscow.com"
target=_blank>moscowcares@moscow.com</A><BR>CC: <A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target=_blank>vision2020@moscow.com</A>
<DIV><BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [link added] We, Intoleristas . .
.<BR><BR><FONT size=+0>Hi Tom,<BR><BR>Thanks for posting this. I had not
read it either before now. It is vintage Wilson--all rhetoric and
sarcasm with little substance. Much like his papers for my philosophy
classes.<BR><BR>Some time ago a Kirker accused me of being a "Hindu-Lover," or
something like that. I had to inform him that I have supported four
Indians for their studies: one Christian who is now practicing
psychotherapy in Australia, one Hindu for his art career, and a man and wife
team (both devout Christians). My Hindu friends may have good reason to charge
that I'm a "Christian-lover."<BR><BR>The husband just finished his Ph.D. at
the University of Denver on the psychology of being a Christian untouchable.
(I thought that they did not exist.) It was a brilliant analysis that gained
him a dissertation prize of $2,000. The wife just graduated summa cum
laude from the School of Nursing and the University of Houston. <BR><BR>I
had a great weekend celebrating with them (Indian food at every meal) and a
wonderful church service for Telegu-speaking Christians. What a change
when they switched from the stodgy English hymns to the ones in Telegu.
The tamborines and tabla came out, and I was able sing along because an IT guy
projected the phonetic equivalents on a screen. A weekend of total
immersion in Indian culture that will never be forgotten.<BR><BR>Wilson
praises that fact that many, but not as many as he implies, Latin Americans
have converted to Pentecostal Christianity. (The highest percentage of them in
coffee producing countries is 20 percent in Gautemala.) As he does with his
right hand, he calls American Pentecostals less than Christian on the
left. (I can play the right and left hand game as well as he can.)
There is absolutely no healing, speaking in tongues, prophesying, and holy
rolling at Christ Church.<BR><BR>The only foreign travel Doug Wilson did was
on U.S. subs. He doesn't have a clue what multiculturalism is or what
seasoned travelers experience and learn in foreign lands. His is a very
narrow world indeed.<BR><BR>Happy New Year to all
beings,<BR><BR>Nick<BR><BR><BR><BR>A society grows great when old men plant
the seeds of trees whose shade they know they shall never sit
in.<BR><BR>-Greek proverb<BR><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From:
<A href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com"
target=_blank>vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</A> on behalf of Moscow
Cares<BR>Sent: Sun 12/30/2012 5:40 PM<BR>To: Joe Campbell<BR>Cc:
viz<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [link added] We, Intoleristas . .
.<BR><BR><BR><BR>---------------------------------------<BR><BR>Seeya round
town, Moscow, because . . .<BR><BR>"Moscow Cares"<BR><A
href="http://www.MoscowCares.com"
target=_blank>http://www.MoscowCares.com</A><BR> <BR>Tom
Hansen<BR>Moscow, Idaho<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></FONT><BR><BR></DIV>
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