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<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>"...</FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman">why is every
conservative favorably inclined toward the NRA plan..."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>I don't believe that I have heard anybody, certainly
none on this forum who jump for joy over the proposal. Speaking for myself,
I would hope for a different solution. My only defense was to the absurd claims
that were made as to how the plan couldn't be implemented in a timely manner, A
defense borne out buy the fact that many schools have implemented a similar plan
already.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>A thought that occurs to me that might be a direct help
in matters such as this would be for the NRA and government to team up in a
massive education campaign. The main thrust of which would be to encourage
firearms owners to obtain and religiously use decent quality gun safes to store
their weapons. This could be combined with a government incentive in the form of
a tax credit to help offset the expense of the purchase. Had the Sandyhook
shooters mom had her rifle properly secured we might be having a different
conversation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">Joe Campbell</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December 23, 2012 1:54 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A
title="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">Scott Dredge</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A
title="mailto:thansen@moscow.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom Hansen</A> ; <A
title="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com>
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com>"><jampot@roadrunner.com></A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">viz</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Huh?</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Here's my beef. Since Reagan Conservatives have been trying to cut
government programs. Yet why is every conservative favorably inclined toward the
NRA plan, which is just more big government? 99.9% of the time we're told by
conservatives that you can't trust government, that they are inept. Yet not
here.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>And why did you, Scott, in your previous post, suppose that the burden is
on those who oppose the NRA to explain why it is economically infeasible? Is
that how it works? I can put forth any proposal I want and it's up to you to
refute it or I get to keep talking about it?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Tell me the details of the plan and if you can't do it -- which you can't
-- then it's not really a plan.<BR><BR>On Dec 22, 2012, at 1:13 PM, Scott Dredge
<<A href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><Who is likely to gain,
both financially and politically if 130,000 schools were suddenly required to
procure armed security for their campuses?></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto">Good - we need more home
grown jobs with decent pay & benefits. That's just a positive side
effect.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto">Who are the financial and
political losers, what are their beefs, and where are they drawing their line
in the sand?<BR></SPAN><BR><SPAN
style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto">-Scott</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><BR>On Dec 22, 2012, at 12:37 PM,
"Tom Hansen" <<A
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto" type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto">Here is an accumulation of NRA
supporters. Hint: They are ALL gun clubs and gun
manufacturers.</DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; FONT-SIZE: 15px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)"><A
href="http://www.nrafoundation.org/about/corporate/clubs.asp">http://www.nrafoundation.org/about/corporate/clubs.asp</A></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; FONT-SIZE: 15px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; FONT-SIZE: 15px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)">Here
is a list of NRA corporate sponsors (not a PTA in the bunch)</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; FONT-SIZE: 15px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; FONT-SIZE: 15px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)"><A
href="http://www.friendsofnra.org/corporate-sponsors.aspx">http://www.friendsofnra.org/corporate-sponsors.aspx</A></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto">Who is likely to gain, both
financially and politically if 130,000 schools were suddenly required to
procure armed security for their campuses?</DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto">Now, "As for unreasonable people
. . . "</DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto">Seeya round town, Moscow,
because . . .</DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto">"Moscow Cares"</DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><A
href="http://www.MoscowCares.com">http://www.MoscowCares.com</A></DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"> </DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto">
<DIV>Tom Hansen</DIV>
<DIV>Moscow, Idaho</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto"><BR>On Dec 22, 2012, at 11:54
AM, Scott Dredge <<A
href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto" type="cite">
<DIV>
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<DIV dir=ltr>Joe,<BR><BR>You may ultimately be right that 'it is a bad
plan', but obviously not everyone has come to that same conclusion.
IMO it would be a good use of time to FULLY vet that proposal along with
its advantages (if any) and disadvantages. And if you know things
that others don't and it's all crystal clear to you, then by all means
shoot holes in the idea and preferably with cold hard verifiable facts and
statistics.<BR><BR><<SPAN>it might draw shooters since most of them are
suicidal as well as homicidal><BR>Have the FBI profilers weigh in on
this<BR>Have mental health professionals weigh in on
this<BR><BR><</SPAN><SPAN>The plan is economically
unfeasible.><BR>Show the economic numbers in comparison to the price of
unleashed mayhem<BR>Put forth all ideas of funding prevention programs and
similarly fully vet each of those ideas<BR><BR>Ultimately the plan either
stands up to detailed scrutiny or can be demonstrably shown as unfeasible.
unwise, etc. The NRA says this is the answer and they have legions
of supporters that take that as the gospel truth since this 'group think'
seems to be a human attribute as can be seen almost everywhere in
politics, religion, v2020, and so on.<BR><BR>Reasonable people can clearly
see the truth when it's presented clearly, crisply, and - above all -
accurately. As for unreasonable people, there's no hope for
them.<BR><BR>-Scott</SPAN><BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV id=SkyDrivePlaceholder></DIV>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 11:11:19 -0800<BR>From: <A
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</A><BR>To:
<A href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</A><BR>CC: <A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Huh?<BR><BR>Gary,<BR><BR>I'm happy to discuss this issue
with you but that would mean we would have to discuss it. People keep
mentioning specific criticisms about the NRA plan, referring you and
others to articles and television interviews where the plan is discussed
and dismissed, yet I don't see any real discussion of the plan from its
supporters. I have not seen many responses to the criticisms other than
"It might work." Like that was a reason for seriously the plan.<BR><BR>Let
me be more specific. Here are two recent criticisms that have not yet been
responded to. They are recent, so maybe that is the reason: one by Dan and
one by Sunil. Sunil writes:<BR><BR>With regard to the NRA response: As my
memory serves me, I think we've had shootouts at the following locations
in the last 12-18 months:<BR>-an elementary school;<BR>-a shopping
mall;<BR>-a cinema;<BR>-a Sikh temple;<BR>-a political rally (that was
>18 months ago, I think).<BR>Should we have armed guards to protect us
from each other at all of those locations?<BR><BR>This broadens the
economic argument that I was giving. The plan is economically unfeasible.
It isn't JUST that it is irresponsible -- a huge federal program in a time
of economic crisis -- it is unfeasible.<BR><BR>Second, Dan notes that
there are questions about the need for the plan. He writes: "<SPAN>there
was significant security present when Gabrielle Giffords was shot." Why
think the security will help? You are ready to launch a huge governmental
program and it isn't even clear that it will do any good. Saundra noted
that it might draw shooters since most of them are suicidal as well as
homicidal.<BR><BR>So how do you or any others respond to these criticisms
of the NRA plan? Let's discuss it. I want to get this over with because
this is a bad plan and we are wasting a lot of time talking about it.
Let's see why it is a bad plan and move on to a better
plan.<BR><BR>Joe<BR></SPAN><BR>
<DIV class=ecxgmail_quote>On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 6:37 AM, Gary Crabtree
<SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=ecxgmail_quote><U></U>
<DIV style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-TOP: 15px"
lang=EN-US>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>I thought the point here was to discuss options.
Do you imagine that being extra unpleasant lends an extra level of
credence to your point of view? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV><B>From:</B> <A
title="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm">Saundra Lund</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, December 21, 2012 8:18 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A
title="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com">'Gary Crabtree'</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">'viz'</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Huh?</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It
worked soo well at Columbine, didn’t it?<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Confrontation
by the armed officer on campus & the exchange of fire drove
one of the shooters <B>back into the school</B> to continue the
slaughter. There’s a stellar success!<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Oops
– but don’t confuse you with reality & facts,
right?<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Saundra<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</A>
[mailto:<A
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Gary Crabtree<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, December 21,
2012 1:40 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Joe Campbell<BR><B>Cc:</B>
viz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020]
Huh?<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>