<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML XMLNS:O><HEAD>
<META content=text/html;charset=utf-8 http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.7601.17998"></HEAD>
<BODY style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-TOP: 15px"
dir=auto id=MailContainerBody leftMargin=0 topMargin=0 CanvasTabStop="true"
name="Compose message area">
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>The CWP makes no difference in the equation. If the
situation is such that you feel you must defend your life, you do and let the
chips fall where they may. What kind of idiot decides that it would be better to
die then have to give the police an explanation that seems tough to
swallow.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>I'm not so sure that people get away with murder "all
the time." I'm fairly sure that there are people in prison in error. Life
doesn't come with guarantees. This would have to be the genesis of the trite old
saw " better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title="mailto:areaman@moscow.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:areaman@moscow.com">Dan Carscallen</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 12, 2012 8:17 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A
title="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com>
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com>"><vision2020@moscow.com></A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] [Spam 3.90] Re: Concealed Hand Gun
Laws</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Not sure if I'm creating another plot hole or what . . . </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>You fired a warning shot and your attacker continued. Perhaps he was on
bath salts, or suffered from some mental malady, or was deaf(?)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I would think your defense attorney would look into the history of your
"attacker", but your thought experiment is quite the sticky
wicket<BR><BR>DC</DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Dec 12, 2012, at 20:08, "Robert Dickow" <<A
href="mailto:dickow@turbonet.com">dickow@turbonet.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<META name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<STYLE><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></STYLE>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">I’ll try to cover all the plot
holes in my thought experiment in order to focus on the central issue: In the
poorly-lit street I see a flash of light on an object the perp is carrying,
and I think it’s a knife. Only later I learn that it is a flash of light off a
reflective wrist band or jewelry ornament. I fire the second shot (the first
is a warning shot), at fairly close range, after a brief struggle. There
are no witnesses so it doesn’t matter if I say that, yes, I yelled a lot.
Let’s say I did but it only seems to enrage the attacker. Let’s say the perp
appears intoxicated or insane and is making threatening remarks, frightening
me. No witnesses, remember. I’m the only one seeing and hearing her/him
so there is no way to prove that there were verbal threats or warnings. I
might have escaped without firing, and considered doing so, but it was a
fast-moving situation, my escape route appeared blocked by a nearby
delivery van and some stacked construction materials. There was indeed my
first warning shot, but the perp did not cease his/her advance. Through a
fluke of luck the shoves and punches I received did not leave a lasting mark
on my person or clothing. <O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><O:P> </O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">It’s the ability to prove
self-defense that I’m exploring, not principally the gun thing per se. The
item of self-defense could have been a knife or just my bare hands I suppose.
The point I’m hinting at is that maybe, one had better have some good
witnesses when defending oneself in certain situations. However, a further
implication is that if I had only a knife or my bare hands for self-defense, I
might have been more likely to attempt to run away or continue fighting off
the attacker.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><O:P> </O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Bob Dickow,
troublemaker<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><O:P> </O:P></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Tom Hansen [<A
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">mailto:thansen@moscow.com</A>]
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 12, 2012 7:27 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Robert
Dickow<BR><B>Cc:</B> Moscow Vision 2020<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Spam 3.90] Re:
[Vision2020] Concealed Hand Gun Laws<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P> </O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>You say that the perp attacked you. How did (s)he
attack you? Was it sufficient to leave scars on your
body?<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P> </O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>What was it about the perp that made you feel threatened,
other than mere surprise?<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P> </O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Could you have escaped the situation without having to use
a weapon?<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P> </O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Under what circumstances was the fatal round fired?
Accidental due to close physical interaction? Could you have fired a
warning shot or warned the perp, "Hey sh*thead! I have a gun and I WILL
use it unless you leave RIGHT-FU*KING NOW!"<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P> </O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Seeya round town, Moscow, because . .
.<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P> </O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>"Moscow Cares"<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><A
href="http://www.MoscowCares.com">http://www.MoscowCares.com</A><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Tom Hansen, CPL (Commie Pinko
Liberal)<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Moscow, Idaho<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><BR>On Dec 12, 2012, at 7:12
PM, "Robert Dickow" <<A
href="mailto:dickow@turbonet.com">dickow@turbonet.com</A>>
wrote:<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>I am being serious now…<O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>This question has no doubt been addressed by various
experts, but I just thought up a situation that poses a question in my mind
about ethics and legal practicalities:<O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Let’s say, for the sake of this thought experiment, that
I own a handgun that I carry, concealed, for my personal self defense.
I find myself alone on a dark city street and I am surprise attacked
by a lone individual (whom I perceive a mugger), who ignores my shouts and
warnings. My shouts are not noticed by anyone in the neighborhood. I shoot
and kill the person, who I feel is threatening my life. There are no
witnesses or recorded phone calls (unlike the Trayvon Martin shooting). I
have not suffered any visible injuries. How do I prove that I shot in
self-defense? <O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Offhand I don’t see how I can ‘prove’ self-defense.
I can only claim self defense. Why couldn’t the county prosecutor say
‘BS’ and have me put me away for life? Is my thought experiment a situation
in which I really can’t, or should not, use the gun? Or, from another line
of thinking, if I can simply declare self-defense in a case like this, I
could ‘legally’ go out and shoot an innocent pedestrian on a whim, and I
could get away with murder. <O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Thoughts?<O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Bob Dickow, troublemaker<O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <O:P></O:P></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=======================================================<BR>List
services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>serving the communities
of the Palouse since
1994.<BR> <A
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A><BR> <A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>=======================================================<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV><SPAN>=======================================================</SPAN><BR><SPAN>List
services made available by First Step Internet,</SPAN><BR><SPAN>serving the
communities of the Palouse since
1994.</SPAN><BR><SPAN> <A
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN> <A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN>=======================================================</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>=======================================================<BR> List
services made available by First Step Internet,<BR> serving the communities
of the Palouse since
1994.<BR>
http://www.fsr.net<BR>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>=======================================================</BODY></HTML>