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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Lazy, lazy science! I really want to have faith in
all those "unseen" things (unicorns and elves would be way cool), but just can't
make myself do the mental gymnastics necessary to believe. Now, antibiotics,
antidepressants, anti-viral medications, traffic laws, and the power of
individuals and groups to effect change? Those I do take
on "faith", but that's just because I've been given the scientific
studies behind them....hmmmmm. Guess I'd be a lousy prospect for a "religious
conversion". </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Debi R-S</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Secular Humanist Wiccan</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=godshatter@yahoo.com href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul
Rumelhart</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> ; <A
title=thansen@moscow.com href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom Hansen</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Moscow Vision
2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 27, 2012 6:42
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] "Why I Do Not
Believe in a God" (Ricky Gervais)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">These
lazy, procrastinating scientists haven't proven there are no elves, pixies,
invisible rabbits, unicorns, or huge squid-like beings slumbering deep under
the sea either. I demand they get off their butts and do something about
it. All they do is look abashed, mumble something about "burden of
proof" and skulk off quietly, slowly, making no sudden moves, and not glancing
in your direction if they can help it.<BR><BR>Paul<BR>
<DIV><SPAN><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>
<HR SIZE=1>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Donovan Arnold <<A
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Tom Hansen
<thansen@moscow.com>; Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, November 27,
2012 4:12 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[Vision2020] "Why I Do Not Believe in a God" (Ricky
Gervais)<BR></FONT></DIV><BR>
<META content=off http-equiv=x-dns-prefetch-control>
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<DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><SPAN>Science hasn't proved there is no God. So to claim there is no God
based on science is <SPAN id=yiv782024113misspell-0><SPAN>illogical
thinking</SPAN></SPAN>. It is pure faith and personal experience
believing either way.<VAR
id=yiv782024113yui-ie-cursor></VAR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>Donovan J. Arnold</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px"
class=yiv782024113hr></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Moscow Vision 2020
<vision2020@moscow.com> <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, November 26, 2012 8:06
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [Vision2020] "Why
I Do Not Believe in a God" (Ricky <SPAN id=yiv782024113misspell-0
class=yiv782024113mark>Gervais</SPAN>)<BR></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV id=yiv782024113>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Courtesy of the December 22, 2010edition of the Wall Street Journal
at:</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; FONT-SIZE: 15px">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703886904576031640102154156.html</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; FONT-SIZE: 15px"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV>-------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV>
<H1
style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: none; MIN-WIDTH: 0px !important; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; WIDTH: auto; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><FONT
size=3><SPAN><BR></SPAN></FONT></H1>
<H1
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size=3><SPAN>"Why I Do Not Believe in a God"</SPAN></FONT></H1>
<DIV><FONT size=3><SPAN>By Ricky <SPAN id=yiv782024113misspell-1
class=yiv782024113mark>Gervais</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="TEXT-ALIGN: left">Why don't you believe in God? I get that
question all the time. I always try to give a sensitive, reasoned answer. This
is usually awkward, time consuming and pointless. People who believe in God
don't need proof of his existence, and they certainly don't want evidence
<SPAN id=yiv782024113misspell-2 class=yiv782024113mark>tothe</SPAN> contrary.
They are happy with their belief. They even say things like "it's true to me"
and "it's faith." I still give my logical answer because I feel that not being
honest would be patronizing and impolite. It is ironic therefore that "I don't
believe in God because there is absolutely no scientific evidence for his
existence and from what I've heard the very definition is a logical
impossibility in this known universe," comes across as both patronizing and
impolite.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="TEXT-ALIGN: left"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="TEXT-ALIGN: left">Arrogance is another accusation. Which
seems particularly unfair. Science seeks the truth. And it does not
discriminate. For better or worse it finds things out. Science is humble. It
knows what it knows and it knows what it doesn't know. It bases its
conclusions and beliefs on hard evidence—evidence that is constantly updated
and upgraded. It doesn't get offended when new facts come along. It embraces
the body of knowledge. It doesn't hold on to medieval practices because they
are tradition. If it did, you wouldn't get a shot of penicillin, you'd pop a
leach down your trousers and pray. Whatever you "believe," this is not as
effective as medicine. Again you can say, "It works for me," but so do
placebos. My point being, I'm saying God doesn't exist. I'm not saying faith
doesn't exist. I know faith exists. I see it all the time. But believing in
something doesn't make it true. Hoping that something is true doesn't make it
true. The existence of God is not subjective. He either exists or he doesn't.
It's not a matter of opinion. You can have your own opinions. But you can't
have your own facts.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="TEXT-ALIGN: left"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="TEXT-ALIGN: left">Why don't I believe in God? No, no, no,
why do YOU believe in God? Surely the burden of proof is on the believer. You
started all this. If I came up to you and said, "Why don't you believe I can
fly?" You'd say, "Why would I?" I'd reply, "Because it's a matter of faith."
If I then said, "Prove I can't fly. Prove I can't fly see. See, you can't
prove it can you?" You'd probably either walk away, call security or throw me
out of the window and shout, "F—<SPAN id=yiv782024113misspell-3
class=yiv782024113mark>ing</SPAN> fly then you lunatic."</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="TEXT-ALIGN: left"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="TEXT-ALIGN: left">This, is of course a spirituality issue,
religion is a different matter. As an atheist, I see nothing "wrong" in
believing in a God. I don't think there is a God, but belief in him does no
harm. If it helps you in any way, then that's fine with me. It's when belief
starts infringing on other people's rights that it worries me. I would never
deny your right to believe in a God. I would just rather you didn't kill
people who believe in a different god, say. Or stone someone to death because
your rule book says their sexuality is immoral. It's strange that anyone who
believes that an all-powerful, all-knowing, omniscient power responsible for
everything would also want to judge and punish people for what they
are.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="TEXT-ALIGN: left"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 1em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN>From
what I can gather, pretty much the worst type of person you can be is an
atheist. The first four commandments hammer this point home. There is a God,
I'm him, no one else is, you're not as good and don't forget it. (Don't murder
anyone, doesn't get a mention until number 6.)</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 1em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN>When
confronted with anyone who holds my lack of religious faith in such contempt,
I say, "It's the way God made me."</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 1em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN>But
what are atheists really being accused of?</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 1em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN>The
dictionary definition of God is "a supernatural creator and overseer of the
universe." Included in this definition are all deities, goddesses and
supernatural beings. Since the beginning of recorded history, which is defined
by the invention of writing by the Sumerians around 6,000 years ago,
historians have cataloged over 3700 supernatural beings, of which 2870 can be
considered deities.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 1em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN>So
next time someone tells me they believe in God, I'll say "Oh which one? Zeus?
Hades? Jupiter? Mars? Odin? Thor? Krishna? Vishnu? Ra?…" If they say "Just
God. I only believe in the one God," I'll point out that they are nearly as
atheistic as me. I don't believe in 2,870 gods, and they don't believe in
2,869.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 1em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN>I
used to believe in God. The Christian one that is.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 1em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN>I
loved Jesus. He was my hero. More than pop stars. More than footballers. More
than God. God was by definition omnipotent and perfect. Jesus was a man. He
had to work at it. He had temptation but defeated sin. He had integrity and
courage. But He was my hero because He was kind. And He was kind to everyone.
He didn't bow to peer pressure or tyranny or cruelty. He didn't care who you
were. He loved you. What a guy. I wanted to be just like Him.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 1em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN>One
day when I was about 8 years old, I was drawing the crucifixion as part of my
Bible studies homework. I loved art too. And nature. I loved how God made all
the animals. They were also perfect. Unconditionally beautiful. It was an
amazing world.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 1em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN>I
lived in a very poor, working-class estate in an urban sprawl called Reading,
about 40 miles west of London. My father was a laborer and my mother was a
housewife. I was never ashamed of poverty. It was almost noble. Also, everyone
I knew was in the same situation, and I had everything I needed. School was
free. My clothes were cheap and always clean and ironed. And mum was always
cooking. She was cooking the day I was drawing on the cross.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 1em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN>I
was sitting at the kitchen table when my brother came home. He was 11 years
older than me, so he would have been 19. He was as smart as anyone I knew, but
he was too cheeky. He would answer back and get into trouble. I was a good
boy. I went to church and believed in God — what a relief for a working-class
mother. You see, growing up where I did, mums didn't hope as high as their
kids growing up to be doctors; they just hoped their kids didn't go to jail.
So bring them up believing in God and they'll be good and law abiding. It's a
perfect system. Well, nearly. Some 75% of Americans are God-fearing
Christians; 75% of prisoners are God-fearing Christians. Some 10% of Americans
are atheists; 0.2% of prisoners are atheists.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 1em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN>But
anyway, there I was happily drawing my hero when my big brother Bob asked,
"Why do you believe in God?" Just a simple question. But my mum panicked.
"Bob," she said in a tone that I knew meant, "Shut up." Why was that a bad
thing to ask? If there was a God and my faith was strong it didn't matter what
people said.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 1em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN>Oh…
hang on. There is no God. He knows it, and she knows it deep down. It was as
simple as that. I started thinking about it and asking more questions, and
within an hour, I was an atheist.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 1em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN>Wow.
No God. If mum had lied to me about God, had she also lied to me about Santa?
Yes, of course, but who cares? The gifts kept coming. And so did the gifts of
my <SPAN id=yiv782024113misspell-4 class=yiv782024113mark>newfound</SPAN>
atheism. The gifts of truth, science, nature. The real beauty of this world. I
learned of evolution—a theory so simple that only England's greatest genius
could have come up with it. Evolution of plants, animals and us–-with
imagination, free will, love, humor. I no longer needed a reason for my
existence, just a reason to live. And imagination, free will, love, humor,
fun, music, sports, beer and pizza are all good enough reasons for
living.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 1em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN>But
living an honest life—for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I
learned that day: that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, in the
end leads to liberation and dignity.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 1em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN>So
what does the question "Why don't you believe in God?" really mean? I think
when someone asks that they are really questioning their own belief. In a way
they are asking, "What makes you so special?" "How come you weren't
brainwashed with the rest of us?" "How dare you say I'm a fool and I'm not
going to heaven, f— you!" Let's be honest, if one person believed in God he
would be considered pretty strange. But because it's a very popular view it's
accepted. And why is it such a popular view? That's obvious. It's an
attractive proposition. Believe in me and live forever. Again if it was just a
case of spirituality this would be fine.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 1em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN>"Do
unto others…" is a good rule of thumb. I live by that. Forgiveness is probably
the greatest virtue there is. But that's exactly what it is—a virtue. Not just
a Christian virtue. No one owns being good. I'm good. I just don't believe
I'll be rewarded for it in heaven.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 1em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN>My
reward is here and now. It's knowing that I try to do the right thing. That I
lived a good life. And that's where spirituality really lost its way. When it
became a stick to beat people with. "Do this or you'll burn in
hell."</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 1em; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN>You
won't burn in hell. But be nice anyway.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>-------------------------------------<BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN id=yiv782024113misspell-5 class=yiv782024113mark>Seeya</SPAN> round
town, Moscow, because . . .</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>"Moscow Cares"</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.moscowcares.com/" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.moscowcares.com/</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Tom Hansen</DIV>
<DIV>Moscow, Idaho</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>=======================================================<BR>List
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