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<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>Perhaps there ought to be a litmus test?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=art.deco.studios@gmail.com
href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com">Art Deco</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 01, 2012 8:02 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Maybe it's rap-speak where some words mean the opposite of what
they ordinarily mean.<BR><BR>w.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Gary Crabtree <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:moscowlocksmith@gmail.com"
target=_blank>moscowlocksmith@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV>Acidulous? You really need to make up your mind, Wayne. Everything you've
posted with regard to my character to date would have the vision
readership think me rather base.</DIV><SPAN class=HOEnZb><FONT color=#888888>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>g<BR><BR></DIV></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV class=HOEnZb>
<DIV class=h5>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Art Deco <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com"
target=_blank>art.deco.studios@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>I thoroughly resent the implication that there are more
insulting, acidulous posters on Vision 2020 than myself and Gary Crabtree!
<BR><BR>w.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Scott Dredge <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com"
target=_blank>scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Really Joe? I think my rants are of vastly higher
quality than Tom's and also more appropriate than Tom's because they're in
direct response to his low quality / ridiculous ones. If you don't
see it you're probably biased in favor of Tom which I don't take issue
with.<BR><BR>-Scott<BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<HR>
CC: <A href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"
target=_blank>thansen@moscow.com</A>; <A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
target=_blank>vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>From: <A
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com"
target=_blank>philosopher.joe@gmail.com</A>
<DIV><BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .<BR></DIV>Date:
Thu, 1 Nov 2012 10:48:44 -0700<BR>To: <A
href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com"
target=_blank>scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>
<DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV>Is there some reason that your insulting rants are better than those
of others? I don't see it.<BR><BR>On Nov 1, 2012, at 10:29 AM, Scott
Dredge <<A href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com"
target=_blank>scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Reposting - I grabbed the wrong Tom Hansen thread the first
time being's that there are so many of them...<BR><BR>Well golly gee Mr.
Hansen, I'm downright shocked that things aren't as simple and as black
& white as you first presented them to be and that since you jumped
the gun on this and trumped it up - as you do on a lot of thing - that
you now are reversing course and asking folks to contact you off list so
you can further explain in order to try and save face. And this
despicable thread is what you so now nonchalantly refer to a 'venting
[your] concern'??? You're pathetic.<BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<HR>
From: <A href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"
target=_blank>thansen@moscow.com</A><BR>Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 08:39:27
-0700<BR>To: <A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
target=_blank>vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
Question, V-Peeps . . .<BR><BR>
<DIV>Upon further off-list review and discussion, I have decided
not to pursue this matter any further.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>If any of you fine V-Peeps are interested in how I reached this
decision, contact me off-list.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>In the interim, thank you for permitting me to vent my
concern.<BR><BR>
<DIV>Seeya at the polls, Moscow, because . . .</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>"Moscow Cares"</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.MoscowCares.com"
target=_blank>http://www.MoscowCares.com</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Tom Hansen</DIV>
<DIV>Moscow, Idaho</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.
The college students are not very active in local elections (thank
goodness!)."</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Nov 1, 2012, at 4:46 AM, Tom Hansen <<A
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"
target=_blank>thansen@moscow.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV>Laws are only as firm as those that enforce them.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Stay tuned, V-Peeps<BR><BR>
<DIV>Seeya at the polls, Moscow, because . . .</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>"Moscow Cares"</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.MoscowCares.com"
target=_blank>http://www.MoscowCares.com</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Tom Hansen</DIV>
<DIV>Moscow, Idaho</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.
The college students are not very active in local elections
(thank goodness!)."</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Nov 1, 2012, at 12:09 AM, Scott Dredge <<A
href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com"
target=_blank>scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Sounds reasonable to me Kit and I'd think this all
could be handled by just having a non-accusatory (if possible)
conversation with this council member and getting a better
understanding about his situation (should he choose to want this
publicly disclosed) and his ability to continue fulfilling his
duties. The tenor of the comments here on the Viz from the
regular contributors of group thinkers is that he's not well liked
and not at all trusted, so I don't really foresee the V2020 mob -
fully equipped with pitchforks and torches in hand - having a
cordial and honest conversation with this particular council
member.<BR><BR>I'm not a politician and nor will I ever be so it's
kind of tough for me to put myself in this guy's situation to say
what I'd do, but my sense is that I would simply have 'no comment'
to anyone or any group who was acting hostile toward me and jumping
to conclusions that I was operating in an underhanded and dishonest
manner and was making statements to the effect that they wanted me
to resign or be forcibly removed from my position. What other
choice is there...be forthcoming and cooperative and have your
admitted enemies use all that against you as they can and would
do? I think the legal requirements can easily be addressed,
but would then lead to your subsequent point regarding gaming the
system to meet Tom's supposedly all important 'letter of the law' -
which is really only important in terms of how effective the law is
to DQ this guy immediately from his position. I'll give Tom
credit that he is transparent on that end goal.<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> CC: <A href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"
target=_blank>thansen@moscow.com</A>; <A
href="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com"
target=_blank>kmmos1@frontier.com</A>; <A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
target=_blank>vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>> From: <A
href="mailto:kcraine@frontier.com"
target=_blank>kcraine@frontier.com</A><BR>> To: <A
href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com"
target=_blank>scooterd408@hotmail.com</A><BR>> Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .<BR>> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012
21:46:58 -0700<BR>> <BR>> I think this basic question is two
fold:<BR>> <BR>> 1. Does the councilor involved met the legal
requirement that he <BR>> resides in the district he
represents?<BR>> <BR>> 2. Does the councilor's heart reside in
the district he represents?<BR>> <BR>> In the first instance,
if the councilor does not reside -- or is <BR>> gaming the system
to claim he resides -- in the district he <BR>> represents,
should he be in office (morally or legally) when he does <BR>>
not belong to the group he claims to represent? The question is
<BR>> whether we (the citizens of Moscow, Idaho) should accept
being ruled <BR>> by an outsider (e.g. someone from Troy,
Pullman, Spokane, New York, <BR>> Mars) who will not suffer the
consequences of his decisions.<BR>> <BR>> In the second
instance, should a person who does not have an interest <BR>> in
the future of a community he represents (because he knows he will
<BR>> not live with the consequences of his decisions) have a
moral <BR>> obligation to step down from an office he
holds?<BR>> <BR>> City councilors determine the policies which
run this city. Their <BR>> decisions impact every member of the
population. Regardless of of the <BR>> legal status of a
councilor's claimed residence, the question is <BR>> whether that
councilor is willing to live with the consequences of his/ <BR>>
her decisions (i.e, will they be residing in Moscow after their
<BR>> term?). The community has the right to ask why a suspected
out-of- <BR>> community councilor ran for the position AND why
the councilor should <BR>> continue to be retained in the
position. The councilor has an <BR>> obligation to answer -- AND
to justify his continued membership of the <BR>> council in terms
of the long-term benefits of a community he had left.<BR>>
<BR>> Kit Craine<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On Oct 31, 2012, at
8:58 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:<BR>> <BR>> > I'd hope that the
city council members would ignore most of your <BR>> >
numerous petty requests Tom, but let me know how this all works out
<BR>> > for you. If this guy isn't carrying out his duties
(e.g. was not <BR>> > involved in any way) then that'd be the
reason to jettison him. If <BR>> > this residency thing is a
huge fricken' big deal and anyone in the <BR>> > powers that
be gives one wit I'm sure there can be some monumental <BR>> >
waste of time and effort put forth to meet the letter of the law,
<BR>> > but what'd be the point since you'd just go snooping
for some other <BR>> > minor infraction to yell 'throw the bum
out'. What a joke.<BR>> ><BR>> > From: <A
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"
target=_blank>thansen@moscow.com</A><BR>> > Date: Wed, 31 Oct
2012 04:19:31 -0700<BR>> > To: <A
href="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com"
target=_blank>kmmos1@frontier.com</A><BR>> > CC: <A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
target=_blank>vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>> > Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .<BR>> ><BR>> >
Bottom line: The law is the law; the spirit of the law being that
<BR>> > our governing city council WILL NOT be comprised of
nonresidents.<BR>> ><BR>> > Reasoning for noncompliance:
There was no explanation given as to <BR>> > why the city code
will not be enforced.<BR>> ><BR>> > Options: As
residents, subject to city code enforcement, we can <BR>> >
either request, in a letter to the city council and Mayor Chaney,
<BR>> > that action be taken or we can join Mr. Dredge in
burying our heads <BR>> > in the proverbial sand.<BR>>
><BR>> > I have NEVER been known to sit on my
hands.<BR>> ><BR>> > As one quote goes . . .<BR>>
><BR>> > "Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the
way!"<BR>> ><BR>> > This IS important, Moscow, because .
. .<BR>> ><BR>> > "Moscow Cares"<BR>> > <A
href="http://www.MoscowCares.com"
target=_blank>http://www.MoscowCares.com</A><BR>> ><BR>>
> Tom Hansen<BR>> > Moscow, Idaho<BR>> ><BR>>
><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > On Oct 31, 2012, at 3:34
AM, Kenneth Marcy <<A href="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com"
target=_blank>kmmos1@frontier.com</A>> <BR>> >
wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> > On 10/30/2012 11:12 PM, Scott
Dredge wrote:<BR>> > It's a non-issue.<BR>> ><BR>>
> One of the essential characteristics of municipal government is
that <BR>> > it is relatively local, i.e., close to those who
are governed and, <BR>> > ipso facto, those who are governed
are close to those who govern <BR>> > them. If one of those
governing changes one of his characteristics <BR>> > from
local to non-local, that change creates an incongruity with <BR>>
> local government characteristics which may be resolved by
<BR>> > resignation from office by the incongruous
person.<BR>> ><BR>> > It's tantamount to claiming Obama
is ineligible to be president <BR>> > because many believe he
was born in Kenya.<BR>> ><BR>> > That is maldirective
nonsense. Many people believe incorrect <BR>> > information to
their individual and our collective detriment. The <BR>> >
fact of their belief does not justify it, nor does it serve as a
<BR>> > basis for argument that because it is true that
anything else is true.<BR>> ><BR>> > If this Tim Brown
character is not eligible to be sitting on the <BR>> >
council, then someone who cares about this should follow the
<BR>> > processes in place to remove / replace him.<BR>>
><BR>> > Tim Brown initiated the processes necessary to
place himself into <BR>> > membership of the Moscow City
Council at a time when his <BR>> > characteristics were
consonant with such membership. Apparently he <BR>> > has
changed those characteristics, so he should initiate the <BR>>
> processes necessary to remove himself from membership of the
Moscow <BR>> > City Council.<BR>> ><BR>> > That'd
just be far too logical and it won't happen so this flap is <BR>>
> much ado about nothing.<BR>> ><BR>> > Asking other
people to expend the energy to collectively act to do <BR>> >
what the incumbent could, and should, do individually with less
<BR>> > energy, and more grace, is neither "logical" nor
efficient, and <BR>> > represents a level of
counterproductivity that is counterintuitive <BR>> > to better
local government.<BR>> ><BR>> > "Much ado about nothing"
serves better as a Shakespearean play title <BR>> > than as a
description of this discussion.<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>>
> Ken<BR>> >
=======================================================<BR>> >
List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> >
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> > <A
href="http://www.fsr.net"
target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>> > <A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"
target=_blank>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>> >
=======================================================<BR>>
><BR>> >
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<BR>> > services made available by First Step Internet,
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href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"
target=_blank>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A>=======================================================<BR>>
> =======================================================<BR>>
> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>>
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> >
<A href="http://www.fsr.net"
target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>> > <A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"
target=_blank>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>> >
=======================================================<BR>>
<BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
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1994.</SPAN><BR><SPAN> <A
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href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"
target=_blank>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN>=======================================================</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>=======================================================
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<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><SPAN>=======================================================</SPAN><BR><SPAN>List
services made available by First Step Internet,</SPAN><BR><SPAN>serving
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color=#888888><BR></FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><SPAN><FONT
color=#888888><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR><A
href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com"
target=_blank>art.deco.studios@gmail.com</A><BR><BR><IMG
src=""><BR><BR></FONT></SPAN><BR>=======================================================<BR> List
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mailto:<A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"
target=_blank>Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>=======================================================<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR><A
href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com"
target=_blank>art.deco.studios@gmail.com</A><BR><BR><IMG
src="http://users.moscow.com/waf/WP%20Fox%2001.jpg"><BR><BR>
<P>
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