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<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV>My only point: All of you take careful notice—the village idiot
was ALWAYS a man. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sue H. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=scooterd408@hotmail.com
href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">Scott Dredge</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 01, 2012 8:52 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=moscowcares@moscow.com
href="mailto:moscowcares@moscow.com">moscowcares@moscow.com</A> ; <A
title=art.deco.studios@gmail.com
href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">viz</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<DIV dir=ltr>Why sell yourself short Tom? Go for
broke!<BR><BR>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_idiot<BR><BR>'The village
idiot was long considered an acceptable social role, a unique individual who was
dependent yet contributed to the social fabric of his community.'<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV id=SkyDrivePlaceholder></DIV>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
From: moscowcares@moscow.com<BR>Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 11:37:01 -0700<BR>To:
art.deco.studios@gmail.com<BR>CC: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .<BR><BR>
<DIV>I'll have you know, Wayne, that it has taken me twenty years in the Army,
where I was called everything but Tom, followed by twenty years of stirring
stink pots here on the Viz to graduate to the exalted level of "Pathetic".
I earned it and, gosh darn it, I wear the label proudly.</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Seeya at the polls, Moscow, because . . .</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Moscow Cares"</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.MoscowCares.com"
target=_blank>http://www.MoscowCares.com</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Tom "The Pathetic Intolerista" Hansen</DIV>
<DIV>Moscow, Idaho</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The
college students are not very active in local elections (thank
goodness!)."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Nov 1, 2012, at 11:10 AM, Art Deco <<A
href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>I thoroughly resent the implication that there are more insulting,
acidulous posters on Vision 2020 than myself and Gary Crabtree!
<BR><BR>w.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=ecxgmail_quote>On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Scott Dredge <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=ecxgmail_quote>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Really Joe? I think my rants are of vastly higher quality
than Tom's and also more appropriate than Tom's because they're in direct
response to his low quality / ridiculous ones. If you don't see it
you're probably biased in favor of Tom which I don't take issue
with.<BR><BR>-Scott<BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<HR>
CC: <A href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</A>; <A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>From: <A
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</A>
<DIV class=ecxim><BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . .
.<BR></DIV>Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 10:48:44 -0700<BR>To: <A
href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5><BR><BR>
<DIV>Is there some reason that your insulting rants are better than those of
others? I don't see it.<BR><BR>On Nov 1, 2012, at 10:29 AM, Scott Dredge
<<A href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Reposting - I grabbed the wrong Tom Hansen thread the first
time being's that there are so many of them...<BR><BR>Well golly gee Mr.
Hansen, I'm downright shocked that things aren't as simple and as black
& white as you first presented them to be and that since you jumped
the gun on this and trumped it up - as you do on a lot of thing - that you
now are reversing course and asking folks to contact you off list so you
can further explain in order to try and save face. And this
despicable thread is what you so now nonchalantly refer to a 'venting
[your] concern'??? You're pathetic.<BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<HR>
From: <A href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</A><BR>Date:
Thu, 1 Nov 2012 08:39:27 -0700<BR>To: <A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .<BR><BR>
<DIV>Upon further off-list review and discussion, I have decided not
to pursue this matter any further.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If any of you fine V-Peeps are interested in how I reached this
decision, contact me off-list.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In the interim, thank you for permitting me to vent my
concern.<BR><BR>
<DIV>Seeya at the polls, Moscow, because . . .</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Moscow Cares"</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.MoscowCares.com"
target=_blank>http://www.MoscowCares.com</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Tom Hansen</DIV>
<DIV>Moscow, Idaho</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The
college students are not very active in local elections (thank
goodness!)."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Nov 1, 2012, at 4:46 AM, Tom Hansen <<A
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV>Laws are only as firm as those that enforce them.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Stay tuned, V-Peeps<BR><BR>
<DIV>Seeya at the polls, Moscow, because . . .</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Moscow Cares"</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.MoscowCares.com"
target=_blank>http://www.MoscowCares.com</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Tom Hansen</DIV>
<DIV>Moscow, Idaho</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.
The college students are not very active in local elections (thank
goodness!)."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Nov 1, 2012, at 12:09 AM, Scott Dredge <<A
href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Sounds reasonable to me Kit and I'd think this all could
be handled by just having a non-accusatory (if possible) conversation
with this council member and getting a better understanding about his
situation (should he choose to want this publicly disclosed) and his
ability to continue fulfilling his duties. The tenor of the
comments here on the Viz from the regular contributors of group
thinkers is that he's not well liked and not at all trusted, so I
don't really foresee the V2020 mob - fully equipped with pitchforks
and torches in hand - having a cordial and honest conversation with
this particular council member.<BR><BR>I'm not a politician and nor
will I ever be so it's kind of tough for me to put myself in this
guy's situation to say what I'd do, but my sense is that I would
simply have 'no comment' to anyone or any group who was acting hostile
toward me and jumping to conclusions that I was operating in an
underhanded and dishonest manner and was making statements to the
effect that they wanted me to resign or be forcibly removed from my
position. What other choice is there...be forthcoming and
cooperative and have your admitted enemies use all that against you as
they can and would do? I think the legal requirements can easily
be addressed, but would then lead to your subsequent point regarding
gaming the system to meet Tom's supposedly all important 'letter of
the law' - which is really only important in terms of how effective
the law is to DQ this guy immediately from his position. I'll
give Tom credit that he is transparent on that end goal.<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> CC: <A
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</A>; <A
href="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com">kmmos1@frontier.com</A>; <A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>>
From: <A
href="mailto:kcraine@frontier.com">kcraine@frontier.com</A><BR>>
To: <A
href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</A><BR>>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .<BR>> Date: Wed,
31 Oct 2012 21:46:58 -0700<BR>> <BR>> I think this basic
question is two fold:<BR>> <BR>> 1. Does the councilor involved
met the legal requirement that he <BR>> resides in the district he
represents?<BR>> <BR>> 2. Does the councilor's heart reside in
the district he represents?<BR>> <BR>> In the first instance, if
the councilor does not reside -- or is <BR>> gaming the system to
claim he resides -- in the district he <BR>> represents, should he
be in office (morally or legally) when he does <BR>> not belong to
the group he claims to represent? The question is <BR>> whether we
(the citizens of Moscow, Idaho) should accept being ruled <BR>> by
an outsider (e.g. someone from Troy, Pullman, Spokane, New York,
<BR>> Mars) who will not suffer the consequences of his
decisions.<BR>> <BR>> In the second instance, should a person
who does not have an interest <BR>> in the future of a community he
represents (because he knows he will <BR>> not live with the
consequences of his decisions) have a moral <BR>> obligation to
step down from an office he holds?<BR>> <BR>> City councilors
determine the policies which run this city. Their <BR>> decisions
impact every member of the population. Regardless of of the <BR>>
legal status of a councilor's claimed residence, the question is
<BR>> whether that councilor is willing to live with the
consequences of his/ <BR>> her decisions (i.e, will they be
residing in Moscow after their <BR>> term?). The community has the
right to ask why a suspected out-of- <BR>> community councilor ran
for the position AND why the councilor should <BR>> continue to be
retained in the position. The councilor has an <BR>> obligation to
answer -- AND to justify his continued membership of the <BR>>
council in terms of the long-term benefits of a community he had
left.<BR>> <BR>> Kit Craine<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On Oct 31,
2012, at 8:58 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:<BR>> <BR>> > I'd hope
that the city council members would ignore most of your <BR>> >
numerous petty requests Tom, but let me know how this all works out
<BR>> > for you. If this guy isn't carrying out his duties (e.g.
was not <BR>> > involved in any way) then that'd be the reason
to jettison him. If <BR>> > this residency thing is a huge
fricken' big deal and anyone in the <BR>> > powers that be gives
one wit I'm sure there can be some monumental <BR>> > waste of
time and effort put forth to meet the letter of the law, <BR>> >
but what'd be the point since you'd just go snooping for some other
<BR>> > minor infraction to yell 'throw the bum out'. What a
joke.<BR>> ><BR>> > From: <A
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</A><BR>> >
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 04:19:31 -0700<BR>> > To: <A
href="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com">kmmos1@frontier.com</A><BR>> >
CC: <A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .<BR>>
><BR>> > Bottom line: The law is the law; the spirit of the
law being that <BR>> > our governing city council WILL NOT be
comprised of nonresidents.<BR>> ><BR>> > Reasoning for
noncompliance: There was no explanation given as to <BR>> > why
the city code will not be enforced.<BR>> ><BR>> > Options:
As residents, subject to city code enforcement, we can <BR>> >
either request, in a letter to the city council and Mayor Chaney,
<BR>> > that action be taken or we can join Mr. Dredge in
burying our heads <BR>> > in the proverbial sand.<BR>>
><BR>> > I have NEVER been known to sit on my hands.<BR>>
><BR>> > As one quote goes . . .<BR>> ><BR>> >
"Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!"<BR>> ><BR>>
> This IS important, Moscow, because . . .<BR>> ><BR>>
> "Moscow Cares"<BR>> > <A href="http://www.MoscowCares.com"
target=_blank>http://www.MoscowCares.com</A><BR>> ><BR>> >
Tom Hansen<BR>> > Moscow, Idaho<BR>> ><BR>>
><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > On Oct 31, 2012, at 3:34
AM, Kenneth Marcy <<A
href="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com">kmmos1@frontier.com</A>> <BR>>
> wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> > On 10/30/2012 11:12 PM, Scott
Dredge wrote:<BR>> > It's a non-issue.<BR>> ><BR>> >
One of the essential characteristics of municipal government is that
<BR>> > it is relatively local, i.e., close to those who are
governed and, <BR>> > ipso facto, those who are governed are
close to those who govern <BR>> > them. If one of those
governing changes one of his characteristics <BR>> > from local
to non-local, that change creates an incongruity with <BR>> >
local government characteristics which may be resolved by <BR>>
> resignation from office by the incongruous person.<BR>>
><BR>> > It's tantamount to claiming Obama is ineligible to
be president <BR>> > because many believe he was born in
Kenya.<BR>> ><BR>> > That is maldirective nonsense. Many
people believe incorrect <BR>> > information to their individual
and our collective detriment. The <BR>> > fact of their belief
does not justify it, nor does it serve as a <BR>> > basis for
argument that because it is true that anything else is true.<BR>>
><BR>> > If this Tim Brown character is not eligible to be
sitting on the <BR>> > council, then someone who cares about
this should follow the <BR>> > processes in place to remove /
replace him.<BR>> ><BR>> > Tim Brown initiated the
processes necessary to place himself into <BR>> > membership of
the Moscow City Council at a time when his <BR>> >
characteristics were consonant with such membership. Apparently he
<BR>> > has changed those characteristics, so he should initiate
the <BR>> > processes necessary to remove himself from
membership of the Moscow <BR>> > City Council.<BR>>
><BR>> > That'd just be far too logical and it won't happen
so this flap is <BR>> > much ado about nothing.<BR>>
><BR>> > Asking other people to expend the energy to
collectively act to do <BR>> > what the incumbent could, and
should, do individually with less <BR>> > energy, and more
grace, is neither "logical" nor efficient, and <BR>> >
represents a level of counterproductivity that is counterintuitive
<BR>> > to better local government.<BR>> ><BR>> >
"Much ado about nothing" serves better as a Shakespearean play title
<BR>> > than as a description of this discussion.<BR>>
><BR>> ><BR>> > Ken<BR>> >
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