<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Saundra,</SPAN></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">If a person aborts a child because of its genetic <SPAN id=misspell-0><SPAN>heritage</SPAN></SPAN>, a non-life threatening disability, gender, or sexual orientation it is wrong to me. I don't approve of an abortion simple because the baby will have <SPAN id=misspell-0 class=mark>Down's</SPAN>. That is a nasty reason to abort a fetus. If there is another complication or health factor that is different. But I don't believe that 92% of fetuses with <SPAN id=misspell-1 class=mark>Down's</SPAN> would result in a natural abortion. </SPAN></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Further, I don't believe that <SPAN id=misspell-2 class=mark>Down's</SPAN> is an <SPAN id=misspell-4><SPAN>aberration</SPAN></SPAN> of nature, or anyone born with what society <SPAN id=misspell-5><SPAN>considers</SPAN></SPAN> a birth defect as <SPAN id=misspell-6><SPAN>aberration</SPAN></SPAN> of nature. In fact, I think deviations from the norm are what make us unique people and usually what advances society. We should all be aborted if a birth defect or genetic flaw is a reason, as none of us is born perfect or will have a perfect life. </SPAN></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">I think if someone aborts a baby, by my <SPAN id=misspell-3><SPAN>definition</SPAN></SPAN> of that act, they are pro-choice, regardless of what else they claim or how they act. I think most pro-choice women and men would not actually participate in an abortion just for the sake or <SPAN id=misspell-4><SPAN>inconvenience</SPAN></SPAN> a baby in their life at that point might create. </SPAN></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Many people I have taken care of have had poor qualities of life by our <SPAN id=misspell-3><SPAN>definition</SPAN></SPAN> and would most likely have been terminated if the parents knew and were able to abort them. But what people fail to realize is that many of these people that society think we should abort or terminate and label "defective", bring so much joy, and love, and humanity to those that get to be a part of their lives. My aunt, who was suppose to die at birth, and had severe mental disabilities, was one of the best people I ever knew and brought more joy to Moscow then anyone else I have know. When she died, the entire church was packed with people to say their goodbyes, including the mayor. So I disagree with your statements, and disregard the <SPAN
id=misspell-4><SPAN>statistics</SPAN></SPAN> as meaningless numbers when it comes to <SPAN id=misspell-5><SPAN>humanity</SPAN></SPAN> and <SPAN id=misspell-6><SPAN>societies</SPAN></SPAN> overall mental health. </SPAN></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Saundra, I will get back to you on your other post, I have stuff I have to do tonight. You have a good rest of your day, I enjoy this discussion, and I like hearing your and others viewpoints. </SPAN></div>
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<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px; RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Donovan J. Arnold</SPAN></div>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=hr contentEditable=false readonly="true"></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Saundra Lund <v2020@ssl1.fastmail.fm><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> 'Donovan Arnold' <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>; 'Scott Dredge' <scooterd408@hotmail.com>; 'viz' <vision2020@moscow.com> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, August 28, 2012 9:52 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [Vision2020] The one argument I can make in favor of being 'pro-life'<BR></FONT></DIV><BR>
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<div class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Nope, sorry – that is a bridge too far for me to keep my mouth shut.</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Is it genocide, Donovan, that 75% of <SPAN id=misspell-4 class=mark>trisomy</SPAN> 21 pregnancies terminate <B>naturally</B> prior to birth?</SPAN></div>
<div class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></div>
<div class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">And is it genocide, Donovan, that 20-30% of babies born with <SPAN id=misspell-5 class=mark>DS</SPAN> die <B>naturally</B> during the first year of life? In the US, about 6000 <SPAN id=misspell-6 class=mark>DS</SPAN> babies are born each year, and somewhere between 1200-1800 of those babies die during their first year of life, sometimes with a lot of suffering prior to death.</SPAN></div>
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<div style="RIGHT: auto" class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">One could describe <SPAN id=misspell-7 class=mark>trisomy</SPAN> 21 pregnancies that don’t self-abort prior to birth as aberrations of nature. Given that nature terminates the vast majority of <SPAN id=misspell-8 class=mark>trisomy</SPAN> 21 pregnancies in <SPAN id=misspell-9 class=mark>utero</SPAN>, and nature kills 20-30% of those born with <SPAN id=misspell-10 class=mark>DS</SPAN> during the first year of life, it’s hyperbole for you to characterize voluntary terminations as “genocide.”</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">As for your touching story about the young woman with <SPAN id=misspell-11 class=mark>DS</SPAN> you helped live independently, I have those stories, too . . . quite a few of them. But, I also have stories about caring for <SPAN id=misspell-12 class=mark>DS</SPAN> children & adults who would <B>never</B> be able to live independently and who had – at best – very poor qualities of lives that were <SPAN id=misspell-13 class=mark>heartbreakingly</SPAN> tragic in many, many ways.</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">What I learned is that it’s <B>not my business</B> to think I know better than the individual women choosing to continue or terminate any pregnancy, and I’m stunned you don’t understand that. You’re worried about women being forced to have abortions, and it’s damn disappointing you don’t care just as much about forcing women to continue pregnancies they’<SPAN id=misspell-14 class=mark>ve</SPAN> decided <SPAN id=misspell-15 class=mark>aren</SPAN>’t best to be continued.</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">And, you are dead wrong about your characterization of pro-choice women. What the majority of us believe is that the pregnant woman, in consultation with her health care professional, who have the right to determine whether to continue a pregnancy or terminate it, not the government or anyone else. That is <B>not at all</B> the same thing as being more likely to terminate a pregnancy, and shame on you for perpetuating that phony stereotype.</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">And, as a matter of fact, I know quite a few “pro-life” women who have had abortions due to their individual situations who remain “pro-life.”</SPAN></div>
<div class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></div>
<div class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I also know a whole lot of “pro-life” women & men who support capital punishment.</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">A more correct characterization of those you refer to as “pro-life” is actually “anti-reproductive freedom for women & <SPAN id=misspell-16 class=mark>gung</SPAN>-ho for killing the already born.”</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Oh, and Scott – that 1999 (based on data from the 1980s) article Dale so loved actually may not have been so accurate, but that’s no surprise as I never knew Dale to let facts get in his way. For those interested, you might want to check out this article:</SPAN></div>
<div class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pd.2910/full</SPAN></div>
<div class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Another good read is:</SPAN></div>
<div class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/04/why-so-many-babies-are-still-being-born-with-down-syndrome/254869/</SPAN></div>
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<div class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma', 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma', 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Donovan Arnold<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 28, 2012 4:12 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Scott Dredge; viz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] The one argument I can make in favor of being 'pro-life'</SPAN></div></DIV></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black">Sounds like genocide of people with <SPAN class=yiv1478297263mark><SPAN id=misspell-17 class=mark>Down's</SPAN></SPAN> Syndrome. How sad. I use to help a young woman with <SPAN class=yiv1478297263mark><SPAN id=misspell-18 class=mark>Down's</SPAN></SPAN> live independently. She was a sweet kind angel with not a evil cell in her. How people can destroy such angels from heaven is beyond me. I worry they abort babies they think will be gay, or because of their race, or gender. </SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black">As to your theory, Scott. I think that a pro-life woman is more like to have a baby with <SPAN class=yiv1478297263mark><SPAN id=misspell-19 class=mark>Down's</SPAN></SPAN> because a pro-choice woman would be far more likely to abort it. Older women are also statistically more likely to have a baby with <SPAN class=yiv1478297263mark><SPAN id=misspell-20 class=mark>Down's</SPAN></SPAN> and older women are statistically more likely to be pro-life as well. </SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Scott Dredge <<A href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>><BR><B>To:</B> viz <<A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>> <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 27, 2012 10:25 PM<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] The one argument I can make in favor of being 'pro-life'</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></div></DIV>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">I loved the stats Dale posted on his site. For instance, he had polling data that showed with some kooky accounting that 'The majority of Americans are pro-life'. Shortly thereafter, he had a post titled 'Search and Destroy' which showed that 92% of <SPAN class=yiv1478297263mark><SPAN id=misspell-21 class=mark>Down's</SPAN></SPAN> Syndrome pregnancies are aborted. So let's say that both of these statistics are roughly accurate, but for crunching numbers more quickly let's say:</SPAN></div>
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<LI style="BACKGROUND: white; COLOR: black" class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal>50% of American women are pro-life and the other 50% are pro-choice</LI>
<LI style="BACKGROUND: white; COLOR: black" class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal>90% of <SPAN class=yiv1478297263mark><SPAN id=misspell-22 class=mark>Down's</SPAN></SPAN> Syndrome pregnancies are aborted (assume all these abortions are by self described 'pro-choice' women)</LI>
<LI style="BACKGROUND: white; COLOR: black" class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal>10% of <SPAN class=yiv1478297263mark><SPAN id=misspell-23 class=mark>Down's</SPAN></SPAN> Syndrome pregnancies are carried to term (assume all these births are by hard core pro-life women who are also NOT pro-choice for other women)</LI></UL>
<div style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; BACKGROUND: white" class=yiv1478297263MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><BR><BR>Clearly these numbers show that that by being 'pro-life', a woman SIGNIFICANTLY reduces her risk of having a <SPAN class=yiv1478297263mark><SPAN id=misspell-24 class=mark>Down's</SPAN></SPAN> Syndrome pregnancy. I welcome any / all comments to blow holes in my theory.<BR><BR><BR><BR>-Scott</SPAN></div></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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