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I find most of this discussion comical - especially the zinger from the oft sophomoric Tom Hansen accusing Roger and Gary of degenerating to a new low, as if anyone could go lower than the petty snipes of Tom Hansen. :) It is the stuff of Rod Serling's Twilight Zone.<br><br>I'm against gun control. I think it's a waste of time and effort. Then again, I'm against most bans and restrictions so you righties who clamor for smaller government and less government intrusion kinda, sorta lost a bunch of credibility when you started circulating and passing state constitutional amendments in the very recent past banning / restricting already existing rights, benefits, and protections for same gender couples and their children. That's a mighty 'Christian' thing of a lot of you to stick it to the kids who, through no fault of their own, have two mommies or two daddies. And if you believe that manufacturers and distributors of 'legal products' that can cause death should not be restricted or prosecuted or held liable, then I'm guessing you can't explain the complete 180 degree turn around when that product happens to be something legal like RU-486 that you do want restricted / banned? So it seems to me like you self described 'conservatives', and self described 'liberals', and even some of you self identified 'Christians' are just full of a heck of a lot of contradictions that you're unable to logically defend in a coherent manner without completely annihilating something else that you promote. Unless you're like Doug Wilson and you can just go to your Biblical lookup tables and just point to whatever passage justifies your own personal agenda and claim it as the absolute 'word of God'.<br><br><div><div id="SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id="stopSpelling">From: thansen@moscow.com<br>Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 14:11:48 -0700<br>To: jampot@roadrunner.com<br>CC: vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .<br><br><div>I never EVER stated, suggested, or implied that "the compilation of lists would be a swell idea". I simply stated that I do no question their existence.</div><div><br></div><div>You really ought to go back on your meds, gc.</div><div><br></div><div>That said, and the fact that this interaction is degenerating to a new low (even for Roger Falen and Gary Crabtree), I am signing off of this thread.</div><div><br></div><div>Have fun, boyz.<br><br><div><span class="ecxApple-style-span" style="">Seeya round town, Moscow.</span></div><div><br></div><div>Tom Hansen</div><div>Moscow, Idaho</div><div><br></div><div>"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."</div><div><br></div><div>- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)</div><div> </div></div><div><br>On Aug 18, 2012, at 2:02 PM, "Gary Crabtree" <<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote><div>
<div><font face="Calibri">Hey it's you and hanson that are suggesting that the
compilation of lists would be a swell idea, not I. I assure you I am quite
relaxed.</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri">Since you bring up "</font><font face="Calibri">administrative burden," what kind of burden is it likely to be to
locate, record, and keep track of the approximately 270 million
privately held firearms currently circulating in the United States, many of
which are going to be held by otherwise law abiding private citizens who
are likely to be more than a little underwhelmed with your firearms
and the IRS scheme?</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri">The next question of course would be should this highly
dubious exercise in overreach be achieved, what next? How will it prevent the
tragedies we have recently witnessed? As far as the media has been able to
ascertain the firearms used were purchased legally, at least from the sellers
perspective. (Lying on the 4473 form regarding ones mental health is quite
beyond their control) What good would it do for an IRS agent to have been
aware of the transaction? Do you believe that a well timed audit would have
saved the day?</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri">Your plan would create a great deal more bureaucracy,
waste significant amounts of taxpayer dollars, turn many law abiding gun owners
into criminals at the stroke of a pen and do next to nothing to solve the
perceived problem.</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri">Liberal do something (especially something ineffective)
disease run amok.</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri">g</font></div>
<div><br></div>
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<div style="font-color:black"><b>From:</b> <a title="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com">Kenneth Marcy</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 18, 2012 12:09 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Moscow Vision2020</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .</div></div></div>
<div><br></div>
<div class="ecxmoz-cite-prefix">On 8/18/2012 9:31 AM, Gary Crabtree wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote cite="mid:B562FB54CC3D4C3EAB971E79ED3863BB@GaryPC">
<div><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">Since you are absolutely convinced that
detailed lists are totally benign, let's make available a roster of
everyone who has ever sought or been given treatment for any
and every mental health condition? After all, it's all for the greater
good and what could possibly go wrong? Why track a tool when you can
track the potential user?</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">Heck this detailed list idea is so good
why not expand it to organizations, books, movies, and music. Absolutely
anything that might even hint at inspiring violence. I'm sure that a community
conscious individual such as your self couldn't possibly object to a little
bit of scrutiny in exchange for a small measure of potential safety,
right?</font></div></blockquote><br>Computer science types are watchful that
they don't trap themselves into attempting to compute something that would take
very long periods of time (longer than a human lifetime, for example) to
compute. Sometimes a different algorithm can render a problem more
computationally tractable, and sometimes not.<br><br>Analogously, making the
lists you are suggesting here would be an administrative burden not unlike
attempting to calculate every facet of everything. Practically, i.e., within
reasonable time frames, not to mention with any sort of logical clarity, it just
can not be accomplished.<br><br>Let's take, for example, your phrase "absolutely
anything that might even hint at inspiring violence." OK, let's consider just a
triple of tomes: the Old Testament, the New Testament, and the Qur'an, and those
who read and adhere to one or more of them in some fashion. The administrative
result is a list of Jews, Christians, and Muslims, three groups of people about
whom it is true to suggest that some among them have been inspired to violence
by what they read in one or more of those volumes.<br><br>What are we to do with
such a list of people? Declare them all mentally ill, and then refer them for
psychiatric treatment? Oh, by the way, how is society's supply of secular
humanist psychiatrists and religious cult deprogrammers? Oops. Analogous to the
electronically ancient computer with one processor operating at a slow clock
speed, the process for accomplishing all that work would take an unacceptably
long time, and since we know that in advance of starting such a process, we
won't start the process.<br><br>These practical considerations, plus the rights
of people to pursue the happiness of their own brands of insanity in the privacy
of their own homes, or places of worship, such as movie houses screening Disney
flicks, opera houses presenting Wagnerian almost anything, or book clubs
discussing romance novels with pink covers and numbers on their spines, means
that it is highly unlikely that anytime soon anyone is going to attempt to pry a
Bible from anyone else's cold dead fingers. So, relax.<br><br><br>Ken<br>
<BR><hr>
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