<html><head></head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">If manufacturers sold to children, they'd be liable. Why not if they sell to the insane? Joe</span></div><div><br>On Aug 17, 2012, at 12:44 PM, Wayne Price <<a href="mailto:bear@moscow.com">bear@moscow.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div><span></span></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Ron,<div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div></div></blockquote><div>" ... seeking to hold gun manufacturers and dealers liable for negligence when their weapons are used in crimes..."</div><div><br></div><div>I the truest spirt of equity,how far do we carry this? Do we hold auto manufactures and dealers liable when their products are used in crimes? Bartenders and distilleries liable when their products are used in crimes? What about holding Sears liable when someone buys and uses a Craftsman screw driver in a crime? Someone checks out a book from a library and uses it in a crime, do we hold the author, publisher and the local library liable? If someone buys a two by four at Moscow Building Supply, and uses it to commit a crime, do we hold Moscow Building Supply and the mill where the 2x4 was manufactured liable?</div><div><br></div><div>It's far too slippery of a slope to hold a legitimate manufacturer and dealer liable when they have no control over their products, no matter what those products are, once they leave the manufactures and dealers control.</div><div><br></div><div>Wayne</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Aug 17, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ron Force wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; position: static; z-index: auto; "><div><font size="3">The </font>Republicans have already exempted the gun industry from responsibility:</div><div><font size="3"><br></font></div><div><font size="3"> </font></div><h1 style="font-size: 27px; padding: 0px; margin: 5px 0px; line-height: 1em; font-family: 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; "><nyt_headline version="1.0" type=" ">Congress Passes New Legal Shield for Gun Industry</nyt_headline></h1><div id="toolsRight" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 17px; "><form name="cccform" action="https://s100.copyright.com/CommonApp/LoadingApplication.jsp" target="_Icon"></form><div class="articleTools" style="border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(234, 232, 233); border-right-width: 1px; border-right-style: solid; border-right-color: rgb(234, 232, 233); float: right; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif'; margin: 5px 0px 5px 8px; "><div class="toolsContainer" style="margin: 0px 0px -2px; border-top-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(234, 232, 233); border-bottom-width: 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(234, 232, 233); position: relative; top: -1px; "><ul class="toolsList" style="margin: 5px 0px 0px 5px; padding: 4px 5px 5px 4px; list-style: none; clear: both; "><li class="email" style="margin: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 0px 0px 3px; font-size: 11px; "><form method="POST" name="emailThis" id="emailThis" enctype="application/x-www-form-urlencoded" action="http://www.nytimes.com/mem/emailthis.html" style="margin: 0px; "><br><br></form></li></ul><div id="adxToolSponsor" style="padding: 5px 10px; "><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/adx/bin/adx_click.html?type=goto&opzn&page=www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/politics&pos=Frame4A&sn2=91b454a0/1b92ebd9&sn1=5b4b0dfa/4bf12eb0&camp=FSL2012_ArticleTools_120x60_1787508b_nyt5&ad=BOSW_120x60_June13_NoText&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Efoxsearchlight%2Ecom%2Fbeastsofthesouthernwild" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102); "></a></div></div></div></div><nyt_byline version="1.0" type=" " style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 17px; "><div class="byline" style="font-weight: bold; ">By <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?ppds=bylL&v1=SHERYL%20GAY%20STOLBERG&fdq=19960101&td=sysdate&sort=newest&ac=SHERYL%20GAY%20STOLBERG&inline=nyt-per" title="More Articles by Sheryl Gay Stolberg" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102); ">SHERYL GAY STOLBERG</a></div></nyt_byline><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 17px; "></span><div class="timestamp" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif'; font-size: 11px; line-height: 17px; ">Published: October 21, 2005</div><div id="articleBody" style="font-size: 16px; line-height: 1.3em; font-family: 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; "><nyt_text><div>WASHINGTON, Oct. 20 - The Republican-controlled Congress delivered a long-sought victory to the gun industry on Thursday when the House voted to shield firearms manufacturers and dealers from liability lawsuits. The bill now goes to President Bush, who has promised to sign it.</div><div id="articleInline" style="margin: 4px 15px 10px 0px; float: left; "><div id="inlineBox" style="width: 184px; "><div class="image" style="padding-bottom: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; "><img src="http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/10/21/national/21guns.jpg" width="184" height="258" alt="" border="0" style="padding: 0px; "><div class="credit" style="text-align: right; font-size: 12px; line-height: 1em; margin-bottom: 0.3em; ">Carol T. Powers for The New York Times</div><div class="caption" style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 1.4em; ">Wayne LaPierre of the N.R.A. called the bill "historic."</div></div><div id="inlineReadersOpinion" style="padding: 11px 11px 10px 1px; font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.4em; margin: 10px 0px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(234, 232, 233); "><img src="http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/article3/readers_opinions_header.gif" width="141" height="15" alt="Readers" class="header" style="margin: 0px 0px 4px 1px; padding: 0px; display: block; "><div class="story" style="margin-bottom: 1em; "><h2 style="margin: 5px 1px; font-size: 12px; font-weight: normal; "><a href="http://forums.nytimes.com/top/opinion/readersopinions/forums/washington/the108thcongress/index.html?page=recent" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102); ">Forum: The 109th Congress</a></h2><div class="summary" style="margin: 5px 1px; "></div></div></div></div></div><a name="secondParagraph" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102); " href=""></a><div>The gun liability bill has for years been the No. 1 legislative priority of the National Rifle Association, which has lobbied lawmakers intensely for it. Its final passage, by a vote of 283 to 144, with considerable Democratic support, reflected the changing politics of gun control, an issue many Democrats began shying away from after <a href="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/g/al_gore/index.html?inline=nyt-per" title="More articles about Al Gore." style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102); ">Al Gore</a>, who promoted it, was defeated in the 2000 presidential race.</div><div>"It's a historic piece of legislation," said Wayne LaPierre, the association's chief executive, who said the bill was the most significant victory for the gun lobby since Congress rewrote the federal gun control law in 1986. "As of Oct. 20, the Second Amendment is probably in the best shape in this country that it's been in decades."</div><div>The bill, which is identical to one approved in July by the Senate, is aimed at ending a spate of lawsuits by individuals and municipalities, including New York City, seeking to hold gun manufacturers and dealers liable for negligence when their weapons are used in crimes...</div></nyt_text></div><div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; "> </div><div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; ">Ron Force<br>Moscow Idaho USA<br></div> <div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; "> <div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; "> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Donovan Arnold <<a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Tom Hansen <<a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>>; Dan Carscallen <<a href="mailto:areaman@moscow.com">areaman@moscow.com</a>> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Moscow Vision 2020 <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, August 17, 2012 12:37 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .<br> </font> </div> <br><div id="yiv205190440"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; "><div style=""><span style="">What they need to do is just put a traceable serial number on each gun. When it ends up killing innocent people, charge all the people that were in charge of the gun for violating the law from the manufacturer to the person that gave it to them. If that was done these incidents would not happen. </span></div> <div style=""><span style=""></span> </div> <div style=""><span style="">Donovan J. Arnold<var id="yiv205190440yui-ie-cursor"></var></span></div> <div><br></div> <div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; "> <div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; "> <div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">From:</span></b> Tom Hansen <<a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">To:</span></b> Dan Carscallen <<a href="mailto:areaman@moscow.com">areaman@moscow.com</a>> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Cc:</span></b> Moscow Vision 2020 <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:57 AM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .<br></font></div><br>That I do not know.<br><br>BUT . . .<br><br>It has been reported by several news sources that James Holmes, the suspect in the Aurora (Colorado) theater killings, purchased his collection of weapons from a local gun shop while he was seeing a psychiatrist.<br><br><span id="yiv205190440misspell-1" class="yiv205190440mark">Seeya</span> round town, Moscow.<br><br>Tom Hansen<br>Moscow, Idaho<br><br>"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."<br><br>- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)<br><br><br>On Aug 16, 2012, at 10:46 AM, "Dan Carscallen" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:areaman@moscow.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:areaman@moscow.com">areaman@moscow.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>> That's a good question. I don't frequent gun shows.<br>> <br>> Did this <span id="yiv205190440misspell-3" class="yiv205190440mark">Corkins</span> fellow get his at a gun show?<br>> <br>> DC<br>> <br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: Tom Hansen [<span id="yiv205190440misspell-4" class="yiv205190440mark">mailto</span>:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>] <br>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:45 AM<br>> To: Dan Carscallen<br>> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .<br>> <br>> Enlighten us, Area Man.<br>> <br>> What background checks are conducted by gun retailers at gun shows?<br>> <br>> <span id="yiv205190440misspell-6" class="yiv205190440mark">Seeya</span> round town, Moscow.<br>> <br>> Tom Hansen<br>> Moscow, Idaho<br>> <br>> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."<br>> <br>> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)<br>> <br>> <br>> On Aug 16, 2012, at 10:37 AM, "Dan Carscallen" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:areaman@moscow.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:areaman@moscow.com">areaman@moscow.com</a>> wrote:<br>> <br>>> Tom,<br>>> <br>>> I did not miss your point. I was aiming elsewhere, so to speak. I was just commenting on other parts of the article and other elements of the situation.<br>>> <br>>> I don't know when was the last time you bought a handgun, but there is a background check process. Is it comprehensive? Probably not so much, but you do have to wait. How long? I can't recall, since rules/laws have changed several times since the last time I bought one without having a concealed weapon permit. Having the permit, you've already been through a background check process, but you still fill out the same forms as buying any other firearm (still not a quick process). <br>>> <br>>> How do we assess mental health without infringing on <span id="yiv205190440misspell-8" class="yiv205190440mark">somebody's</span> rights as an American? That's a question for the ages. There aren't any easy answers. It's a people problem, not a gun problem. This cat in Virginia, if you believe his neighbors, was a mellow dude. Do we keep folks who hold "radical" (in either direction) beliefs from buying or owning firearms? How radical is "radical"? Where do you draw the line?<br>>> <br>>> I'm not trying to push your buttons, I promise. I'm just opining like everyone else on the mailing list.<br>>> <br>>> DC<br>>> <br>>> -----Original Message-----<br>>> From: Tom Hansen [<span id="yiv205190440misspell-9" class="yiv205190440mark">mailto</span>:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>]<br>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 9:56 AM<br>>> To: Dan Carscallen<br>>> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020<br>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .<br>>> <br>>> No, Area Man.<br>>> <br>>> You ENTIRELY miss the intent of my posting. <br>>> <br>>> Somebody obtained a handgun with the sole purpose of killing people . . . for no better reason than their expressed beliefs. This is WRONG, no matter who pulls the trigger. <br>>> <br>>> It was reported, by another source (I forget exactly), that <span id="yiv205190440misspell-11" class="yiv205190440mark">Corkins</span> purchased the handgun locally with very little (if, at all, any) background check SIX DAYS AGO! In addition to the handgun, <span id="yiv205190440misspell-12" class="yiv205190440mark">Corkins</span> purchased two 30-round magazines.<br>>> <br>>> NOW DO YOU GET IT?<br>>> <br>>> <span id="yiv205190440misspell-13" class="yiv205190440mark">Seeya</span> round town, Moscow.<br>>> <br>>> Tom Hansen<br>>> Moscow, Idaho<br>>> <br>>> "We're a town o</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div><span>=======================================================</span><br><span> List services made available by First Step Internet,</span><br><span> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a></span><br><span> <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br><span>=======================================================</span></div></blockquote></body></html>