<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt;
font-family:Tahoma
}
--></style></head>
<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>
Paul,<br><br>I agree with some of your position, but just packing heat in itself isn't enough especially when you consider the 'frenzied crowd' part of the equation where panic takes over instead of cooler heads prevailing.  You'd really need someone who was combat trained or who had otherwise been involved in shootouts (police officer probably) who knew how to keep calm and when the proper time was to draw, aim, and fire to diffuse the whole chaotic scene.<br><br>Columbine, Aurora, Virginia Tech to name a few were horrific and unexpected situations.  I think it's a tough problem to try and prevent these and / or stop them once they mayhem has started. :(<br><br>-Scott<br><br><div><div id="SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 09:57:26 -0700<br>From: godshatter@yahoo.com<br>To: vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .<br><br>
  
    
  
  
    <div class="ecxmoz-cite-prefix"><br>
      Yes, you'd have to be damn sure about your line of fire.  Firing
      in the middle of a frenzied crowd running panicked for the exits
      would surely be asking for trouble.  However, it's my
      understanding that for a while during the shooting the shooter had
      complete control of the situation.  Anyone trying to leave was
      shot.  Many people were playing dead in the hopes they would  be
      passed over.  Firing on the shooter, even if he's in body armor,
      might distract him enough that some people might have made it to
      the exits.  Body armor doesn't make you invincible, depending on
      the armor and the caliber of the weapon used you might still have
      made an impact, since he'd still be hit by the blunt force of the
      bullet.  In this situation, though, you would probably also have
      been shot dead shortly after because he was so well prepared
      (vest, leggings, throat protector, groin protector, and a helmet
      with a visor).  Who knows?  Telling a loved one "when I start
      shooting, RUN for the exit and don't stop" might have worked.<br>
      <br>
      Most other shootings like this we've heard about haven't involved
      such a heavily armored assailant.  In fact, quite a few of them
      have taken place in areas where gun use is often restricted, such
      as in schools or on university campuses.  Harris and Kliebold wore
      T-shirts and cargo pants at Columbine.  A student who had happened
      to have smuggled a gun into the school might have been able to
      have had a real impact on that event.<br>
      <br>
      An interesting thing to think about, in my opinion.  Apparently,
      that opinion is not shared on this list.<br>
      <br>
      Paul<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 08/11/2012 08:13 AM, Art Deco wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:CAB8VJX7U4E9YZfQGd9RgXFjkoFVraBiTcFHCs0hawhcEorvVHg@mail.gmail.com">
      <div style="text-align:left">It's hard to think of something more
        foolish than someone or ones with a hand gun in a disorganized,
        panicky crowd trying to shoot a person with a automatic weapon
        shielded by body armor.  How many more victims would be added to
        the final body count?<br>
        <br>
        Didn't something like this happen in the Moscow Massacre?<br>
        <br>
        w.<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Donovan
        Arnold <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>></span>
        wrote:<br>
        <blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div>
            <div>
              <div><span>Tom,</span></div>
              <div><span></span> </div>
              <div><span>While your wife if shopping Tri-State, you
                  should be to. I mean come on, support your community
                  why don't you. :) </span></div>
              <div><span></span> </div>
              <div><span>Donovan J. Arnold</span></div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
                <div style="font-family:times new roman,new\00000d\00000a                  york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
                  <div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial">
                      <div class="ecxim">
                        <div style="border-bottom:#ccc 1px\00000d\00000a                          solid;border-left:#ccc 1px\00000d\00000a                          solid;padding-bottom:0px;line-height:0;padding-left:0px;padding-right:0px;min-height:0px;font-size:0px;border-top:#ccc\00000d\00000a                          1px solid;border-right:#ccc 1px\00000d\00000a                          solid;padding-top:0px">
                        </div>
                        <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
                        Tom Hansen <<a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>><br>
                        <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
                        Sunil Ramalingam <<a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>>
                        <br>
                        <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b>
                        "<<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>>"
                        <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>>
                        <br>
                      </div>
                      <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
                      Friday, August 10, 2012 6:47 PM
                      <div class="ecxim"><br>
                        <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
                        Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State
                        is Promoting . . .<br>
                      </div>
                    </font></div>
                  <br>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div class="ecxim">
                          <div>You may very well be right, Sunil.  </div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>It's just a habit I have acquired while
                            in the service.  Trust those around you, but
                            keep your powder dry.</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>I saw the poster at Tri-State.  And, as
                            I've said before, this is the first time I
                            have seen such an advertisement in Moscow.
                             I checked a few things out, such as its
                            website, phone number, etc. etc. etc. (Hey,
                            I needed something to pass the time while my
                            wife was shopping at Tri-State).</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>The more I dug, the more red flags I
                            found.  The more red flags I found, the more
                            I dug.  I have so many info sources,
                            concerning the NFT Academy, bookmarked for
                            reference I am thinking of discarding half
                            of 'em.</div>
                          <div><br>
                            <div>Seeya round town, Moscow.</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>Tom Hansen</div>
                            <div>Moscow, Idaho</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>"We're a town of about 23,000 with
                              10,000 college students.  The college
                              students are not very active in local
                              elections (thank goodness!)."</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)</div>
                            <div> </div>
                          </div>
                          <div><br>
                            On Aug 10, 2012, at 6:19 PM, Sunil
                            Ramalingam <<a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com" rel="nofollow">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>>
                            wrote:<br>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote>
                          <div>
                            <div dir="ltr">
                              <div class="ecxim">I've taken such a class
                                and in the past had a concealed weapon
                                permit; who knows, I may again. I don't
                                think this class is a big deal.<br>
                                <br>
                                Sunil <br>
                                <br>
                                <div style="border-bottom:#ccc 1px\00000d\00000a                                  solid;border-left:#ccc 1px\00000d\00000a                                  solid;padding-bottom:0px;line-height:0;padding-left:0px;padding-right:0px;min-height:0px;font-size:0px;border-top:#ccc\00000d\00000a                                  1px solid;border-right:#ccc 1px\00000d\00000a                                  solid;padding-top:0px">
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <div class="h5">From: <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" rel="nofollow">thansen@moscow.com</a><br>
                                  Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 17:41:58 -0700<br>
                                  To: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
                                  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look
                                  See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .<br>
                                  <br>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div class="h5">
                                    <div>
                                      <div style="font-size:medium">The
                                        primary reason this caught my
                                        eye . . .</div>
                                      <div style="font-size:medium"><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div style="font-size:medium">I
                                        have lived here in Moscow for
                                        just over twenty years.  The is
                                        the FIRST time I have seen
                                        concealed-weapon classes openly
                                        advertised in town.  Couple that
                                        up with the increasing paranoia,
                                        as a result of the recent
                                        instances in Aurora (Colorado)
                                        and Milwaukee (Wisconsin), and I
                                        feel I have a right to be
                                        curious.</div>
                                      <div style="font-size:medium"><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div style="font-size:medium">BTW,
                                        the NFT Academy website has only
                                        been in existence since April
                                        2012 and was not publicly
                                        released until June 12, 2012
                                        (TWO MONTHS AGO).</div>
                                      <br>
                                      <a href="http://fiddlerstudios.com/created-by-fs/announcing-the-national-firearms-training-academy-website/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://fiddlerstudios.com/created-by-fs/announcing-the-national-firearms-training-academy-website/</a></div>
                                    <div> 
                                      <div>I have more info to share,
                                        concerning the NFT Academy and
                                        its website, but let's see where
                                        this thread leads.</div>
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>Seeya round town, Moscow.</div>
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>Tom Hansen</div>
                                      <div>Moscow, Idaho</div>
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>"We're a town of about 23,000
                                        with 10,000 college students.
                                         The college students are not
                                        very active in local elections
                                        (thank goodness!)."</div>
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>- Dale Courtney (March 28,
                                        2007)</div>
                                      <div> </div>
                                    </div>
                                    <div><br>
                                      On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Sunil
                                      Ramalingam <<a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com" rel="nofollow">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>>
                                      wrote:<br>
                                      <br>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote>
                                  <div>
                                    <div dir="ltr">
                                      <div>
                                        <div class="h5">Something legal?
                                          The nerve! Next they'll be
                                          selling guns!<br>
                                          <br>
                                          Sunil <br>
                                          <br>
                                          From: <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" rel="nofollow">thansen@moscow.com</a><br>
                                          Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012
                                          14:24:56 -0700<br>
                                          To: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
                                          Subject: [Vision2020] Look See
                                          What Tri-State is Promoting .
                                          . .<br>
                                          <br>
                                          <pre> 
 
Seeya round town, Moscow.
 
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
 
"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."

 
- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
 
</pre>
                                          <br>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      =======================================================
                                      List services made available by
                                      First Step Internet, serving the
                                      communities of the Palouse since
                                      1994. <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net/</a>
                                      <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
                                      =======================================================
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </blockquote>
                                <blockquote>
                                  <div>
                                    <div class="ecxim"><span>=======================================================</span><br>
                                      <span>List services made available
                                        by First Step Internet,</span><br>
                                      <span>serving the communities of
                                        the Palouse since 1994.</span><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <span>              <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net/</a></span><br>
                                    <span>         <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br>
                                    <span>=======================================================</span></div>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                              <br>
                              =======================================================
                              List services made available by First Step
                              Internet, serving the communities of the
                              Palouse since 1994. <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net/</a>
                              <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
                              =======================================================
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        <blockquote>
                          <div>
                            <div class="ecxim"><span>=======================================================</span><br>
                              <span>List services made available by
                                First Step Internet,</span><br>
                              <span>serving the communities of the
                                Palouse since 1994.</span><br>
                            </div>
                            <span>              <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net/</a></span><br>
                            <span>         <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a></span><br>
                            <span>=======================================================</span></div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div class="ecxim"><br>
=======================================================<br>
                    List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
                    serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
                  </div>
                                <a href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net/</a><br>
                            mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================<br>
                  <br>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <br>
          =======================================================<br>
           List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
           serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
                         <a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
                    mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
          =======================================================<br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
      <br clear="all">
      <br>
      -- <br>
      Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<br>
      <a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a><br>
      <br>
      <img src="http://users.moscow.com/waf/WP%20Fox%2001.jpg"><br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="ecxmimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre>=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a>
          <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
=======================================================</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  

<br>=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
=======================================================</div>                                       </div></body>
</html>