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Tom makes wrong assumptions about you and most everyone else?  I'm shocked! ;-)  I think conceal carry can be a good thing too.  But unfortunately it can also be a bad thing.  I'd also rather that you have the option of shooting back too. It's just tricky business to try and make and enforce laws that allow guns into the hands of responsible people and at the same time keep them out of the hands of irresponsible and violent prone kooks.<br><br>-Scott<br><br><div><div id="SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 11:48:51 -0700<br>From: godshatter@yahoo.com<br>To: scooterd408@hotmail.com<br>CC: vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .<br><br>
  
    
  
  
    <div class="ecxmoz-cite-prefix"><br>
      Despite Tom Hansen's assumptions, I don't really have a position
      on this topic, other than the simple positions that conceal carry
      can be a good thing and that someone who does so needs to be well
      trained and wise in their use of a weapon.<br>
      <br>
      I just think it's an interesting thing to think about.  What would
      I do if I were in that theater and happened to have a weapon
      concealed on my person?  I'm still unsure about the answer to
      that.<br>
      <br>
      I don't know that we *can* prevent things like this from happening
      without becoming something as a society that we'd rather not be. 
      Bad things happen.  Personally, I'd rather have the option of
      shooting back when they do.<br>
      <br>
      Paul<br>
      <br>
      On 08/11/2012 10:36 AM, Scott Dredge wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:SNT124-W196B2FDEA955AE249F62F5E4B20@phx.gbl">
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        Paul,<br>
        <br>
        I agree with some of your position, but just packing heat in
        itself isn't enough especially when you consider the 'frenzied
        crowd' part of the equation where panic takes over instead of
        cooler heads prevailing.  You'd really need someone who was
        combat trained or who had otherwise been involved in shootouts
        (police officer probably) who knew how to keep calm and when the
        proper time was to draw, aim, and fire to diffuse the whole
        chaotic scene.<br>
        <br>
        Columbine, Aurora, Virginia Tech to name a few were horrific and
        unexpected situations.  I think it's a tough problem to try and
        prevent these and / or stop them once they mayhem has started.
        :(<br>
        <br>
        -Scott<br>
        <br>
        <div>
          <hr id="ecxstopSpelling">Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 09:57:26 -0700<br>
          From: <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><br>
          To: <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
          Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is
          Promoting . . .<br>
          <br>
          <div class="ecxmoz-cite-prefix"><br>
            Yes, you'd have to be damn sure about your line of fire. 
            Firing in the middle of a frenzied crowd running panicked
            for the exits would surely be asking for trouble.  However,
            it's my understanding that for a while during the shooting
            the shooter had complete control of the situation.  Anyone
            trying to leave was shot.  Many people were playing dead in
            the hopes they would  be passed over.  Firing on the
            shooter, even if he's in body armor, might distract him
            enough that some people might have made it to the exits. 
            Body armor doesn't make you invincible, depending on the
            armor and the caliber of the weapon used you might still
            have made an impact, since he'd still be hit by the blunt
            force of the bullet.  In this situation, though, you would
            probably also have been shot dead shortly after because he
            was so well prepared (vest, leggings, throat protector,
            groin protector, and a helmet with a visor).  Who knows? 
            Telling a loved one "when I start shooting, RUN for the exit
            and don't stop" might have worked.<br>
            <br>
            Most other shootings like this we've heard about haven't
            involved such a heavily armored assailant.  In fact, quite a
            few of them have taken place in areas where gun use is often
            restricted, such as in schools or on university campuses. 
            Harris and Kliebold wore T-shirts and cargo pants at
            Columbine.  A student who had happened to have smuggled a
            gun into the school might have been able to have had a real
            impact on that event.<br>
            <br>
            An interesting thing to think about, in my opinion. 
            Apparently, that opinion is not shared on this list.<br>
            <br>
            Paul<br>
            <br>
            <br>
            On 08/11/2012 08:13 AM, Art Deco wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote cite="mid:CAB8VJX7U4E9YZfQGd9RgXFjkoFVraBiTcFHCs0hawhcEorvVHg@mail.gmail.com">
            <div style="text-align:left">It's hard to think of something
              more foolish than someone or ones with a hand gun in a
              disorganized, panicky crowd trying to shoot a person with
              a automatic weapon shielded by body armor.  How many more
              victims would be added to the final body count?<br>
              <br>
              Didn't something like this happen in the Moscow Massacre?<br>
              <br>
              w.<br>
              <br>
            </div>
            <div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 7:02 AM,
              Donovan Arnold <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>></span>
              wrote:<br>
              <blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="border-left:1px\00000d\00000a                #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <div><span>Tom,</span></div>
                    <div><span></span> </div>
                    <div><span>While your wife if shopping Tri-State,
                        you should be to. I mean come on, support your
                        community why don't you. :) </span></div>
                    <div><span></span> </div>
                    <div><span>Donovan J. Arnold</span></div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
                      <div style="font-family:times new\00000d\00000a                        roman,new\00000d\00000a\00000d\00000a                        york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
                        <div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial">
                            <div class="ecxim">
                              <div style="border-bottom:#ccc\00000d\00000a                                1px\00000d\00000a solid;border-left:#ccc\00000d\00000a                                1px\00000d\00000a\00000d\00000a                                solid;padding-bottom:0px;line-height:0;padding-left:0px;padding-right:0px;min-height:0px;font-size:0px;border-top:#ccc\00000d\00000a\00000d\00000a                                1px solid;border-right:#ccc\00000d\00000a                                1px\00000d\00000a solid;padding-top:0px">
                              </div>
                              <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
                              Tom Hansen <<a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>><br>
                              <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
                              Sunil Ramalingam <<a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>>

                              <br>
                              <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b>
                              "<<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>>"

                              <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>>

                              <br>
                            </div>
                            <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
                            Friday, August 10, 2012 6:47 PM
                            <div class="ecxim"><br>
                              <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
                              Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What
                              Tri-State is Promoting . . .<br>
                            </div>
                          </font></div>
                        <br>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <div class="ecxim">
                                <div>You may very well be right, Sunil.
                                   </div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>It's just a habit I have acquired
                                  while in the service.  Trust those
                                  around you, but keep your powder dry.</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>I saw the poster at Tri-State.
                                   And, as I've said before, this is the
                                  first time I have seen such an
                                  advertisement in Moscow.  I checked a
                                  few things out, such as its website,
                                  phone number, etc. etc. etc. (Hey, I
                                  needed something to pass the time
                                  while my wife was shopping at
                                  Tri-State).</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>The more I dug, the more red flags
                                  I found.  The more red flags I found,
                                  the more I dug.  I have so many info
                                  sources, concerning the NFT Academy,
                                  bookmarked for reference I am thinking
                                  of discarding half of 'em.</div>
                                <div><br>
                                  <div>Seeya round town, Moscow.</div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>Tom Hansen</div>
                                  <div>Moscow, Idaho</div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>"We're a town of about 23,000
                                    with 10,000 college students.  The
                                    college students are not very active
                                    in local elections (thank
                                    goodness!)."</div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)</div>
                                  <div> </div>
                                </div>
                                <div><br>
                                  On Aug 10, 2012, at 6:19 PM, Sunil
                                  Ramalingam <<a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com" rel="nofollow">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>>

                                  wrote:<br>
                                  <br>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <blockquote>
                                <div>
                                  <div dir="ltr">
                                    <div class="ecxim">I've taken such a
                                      class and in the past had a
                                      concealed weapon permit; who
                                      knows, I may again. I don't think
                                      this class is a big deal.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Sunil <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <div style="border-bottom:#ccc\00000d\00000a                                        1px\00000d\00000a\00000d\00000a                                        solid;border-left:#ccc\00000d\00000a                                        1px\00000d\00000a\00000d\00000a                                        solid;padding-bottom:0px;line-height:0;padding-left:0px;padding-right:0px;min-height:0px;font-size:0px;border-top:#ccc\00000d\00000a\00000d\00000a                                        1px solid;border-right:#ccc\00000d\00000a                                        1px\00000d\00000a\00000d\00000a                                        solid;padding-top:0px"> </div>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div class="h5">From: <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" rel="nofollow">thansen@moscow.com</a><br>
                                        Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 17:41:58
                                        -0700<br>
                                        To: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
                                        Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more]
                                        Look See What Tri-State is
                                        Promoting . . .<br>
                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div class="h5">
                                          <div>
                                            <div style="font-size:medium">The

                                              primary reason this caught
                                              my eye . . .</div>
                                            <div style="font-size:medium"><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div style="font-size:medium">I
                                              have lived here in Moscow
                                              for just over twenty
                                              years.  The is the FIRST
                                              time I have seen
                                              concealed-weapon classes
                                              openly advertised in town.
                                               Couple that up with the
                                              increasing paranoia, as a
                                              result of the recent
                                              instances in Aurora
                                              (Colorado) and Milwaukee
                                              (Wisconsin), and I feel I
                                              have a right to be
                                              curious.</div>
                                            <div style="font-size:medium"><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div style="font-size:medium">BTW,

                                              the NFT Academy website
                                              has only been in existence
                                              since April 2012 and was
                                              not publicly released
                                              until June 12, 2012 (TWO
                                              MONTHS AGO).</div>
                                            <br>
                                            <a href="http://fiddlerstudios.com/created-by-fs/announcing-the-national-firearms-training-academy-website/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://fiddlerstudios.com/created-by-fs/announcing-the-national-firearms-training-academy-website/</a></div>
                                          <div> 
                                            <div>I have more info to
                                              share, concerning the NFT
                                              Academy and its website,
                                              but let's see where this
                                              thread leads.</div>
                                            <div><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>Seeya round town,
                                              Moscow.</div>
                                            <div><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>Tom Hansen</div>
                                            <div>Moscow, Idaho</div>
                                            <div><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>"We're a town of about
                                              23,000 with 10,000 college
                                              students.  The college
                                              students are not very
                                              active in local elections
                                              (thank goodness!)."</div>
                                            <div><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>- Dale Courtney (March
                                              28, 2007)</div>
                                            <div> </div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div><br>
                                            On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:09 PM,
                                            Sunil Ramalingam <<a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com" rel="nofollow">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>>

                                            wrote:<br>
                                            <br>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <blockquote>
                                        <div>
                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                            <div>
                                              <div class="h5">Something
                                                legal? The nerve! Next
                                                they'll be selling guns!<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Sunil <br>
                                                <br>
                                                From: <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" rel="nofollow">thansen@moscow.com</a><br>
                                                Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012
                                                14:24:56 -0700<br>
                                                To: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel="nofollow">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
                                                Subject: [Vision2020]
                                                Look See What Tri-State
                                                is Promoting . . .<br>
                                                <br>
                                                <pre> 
 
Seeya round town, Moscow.
 
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
 
"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."

 
- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
 
</pre>
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                =======================================================<br>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
            <br>
            <br clear="all">
            <br>
            -- <br>
            Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<br>
            <a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a><br>
            <br>
            <img src="http://users.moscow.com/waf/WP%20Fox%2001.jpg"><br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <fieldset class="ecxmimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
            <br>
            <pre>=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a>
          <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
=======================================================</pre>
          </blockquote>
          <br>
          <br>
          ======================================================= List
          services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
          communities of the Palouse since 1994. <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a>
          <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a>
          =======================================================</div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
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