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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
Here's one that happened in Boiling Springs, SC. Some links to
news stories about it:<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.wyff4.com/Deputies-Armed-Man-Kicks-In-Church-Door-During-Service/-/9324882/10075734/-/item/1/-/jjxqgj/-/index.html">http://www.wyff4.com/Deputies-Armed-Man-Kicks-In-Church-Door-During-Service/-/9324882/10075734/-/item/1/-/jjxqgj/-/index.html</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/03/25/Man-with-shotgun-arrested-at-SC-church/UPI-35931332729850/">http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/03/25/Man-with-shotgun-arrested-at-SC-church/UPI-35931332729850/</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2012/03/26/sheriff-concealed-weapon-saves-church-from-man-armed-with-shotgun/">http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2012/03/26/sheriff-concealed-weapon-saves-church-from-man-armed-with-shotgun/</a><br>
<br>
tl;dr version: A man with a CWP, armed, sees a man take a shotgun
out of the trunk of his car during church services. He warns the
congregation, and locks the doors. The man kicks in a side door
and is disarmed and wrestled to the ground by parishioners and
held at gunpoint by the guy with the concealed weapons permit
until authorities arrive. The shotgun the man had brought was
loaded, and he claims he was going to kidnap the pastor.<br>
<br>
I don't know if this would have turned into a bloodbath if that
guy hadn't acted quickly, I doubt anyone does. That's the trouble
with this sort of request as Gary alluded to. We don't know that
this would have been a tragedy without his help, but it sure might
have been one.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
On 08/11/2012 09:52 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:E8596FAB-6C39-432F-9979-A611AFBCC8FE@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<div>Well I can't. But you said it was a robbery, not a
Columbine or Aurora type situation. Certainly you can't be
sure he didn't prevent deaths; can't be sure their guns were
loaded either. You just don't know. Paul was talking about an
Aurora type situation, where the purpose is spree killing. Any
examples of someone preventing that from happening with a
handgun? Haven't heard or seen of one yet. <br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
On Aug 11, 2012, at 8:28 PM, "Gary Crabtree" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 8.00.7601.17824">
<div>
<div><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">So, logically
speaking, how can you know what was prevented? How can
you know that one of the bandits wouldn't have started
shooting and not quit till the incident had assumed
tragic proportions? Were did you acquire this awesome
ability to determine what might and might not have
been?</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">g</font></div>
</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="philosopher.joe@gmail.com"
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">Joe Campbell</a>
</div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 11, 2012 3:46 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="jampot@roadrunner.com"
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">Gary Crabtree</a>
</div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="godshatter@yahoo.com"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul Rumelhart</a>
; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="vision2020@moscow.com"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com%3E"><vision2020@moscow.com></a>
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See
What Tri-State is Promoting . . .</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Well whether someone used a gun and saved the day in
a case like Aurora is either true or false. If true,
when and where? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The case you have is different. Robbers who shot NO
ONE and were subsequently shot by an old man. Not a case
of preventing violence by any means.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I guess your next suggestion is to get rid of police
-- too much big government -- and it's everyone for
himself.</div>
<div><br>
On Aug 11, 2012, at 2:34 PM, "Gary Crabtree" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div><span></span></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML
8.00.7601.17824">
<div><font face="Calibri">CWP holders will be
reluctant to pipe up in as much as part of
concealed is keeping your yap shut and avoiding
telling all of Gods creation that you're healed.
Your opinion is looked on with favor by some to be
sure.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri">A recent example of an armed
citizen exercising his rights to good effect:</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/71-Year-Old-Man-Shoots-Would-Be-Robbers-at-Ocala-Internet-Cafe-Authorities-162941656.html
CTRL
+ Click to follow link"
href="http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/71-Year-Old-Man-Shoots-Would-Be-Robbers-at-Ocala-Internet-Cafe-Authorities-162941656.html">http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/71-Year-Old-Man-Shoots-Would-Be-Robbers-at-Ocala-Internet-Cafe-Authorities-162941656.html</a></font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri">To say that a guy with a
hand gun has never prevented a massacre is
illogical in as much as who can say what might
have happened had a different path been followed?
In one scenario two goblins are wounded and taken
to jail. In another, a dozen innocents minding
their own business in a internet café are
senselessly murdered...film at 11:00</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Calibri">g</font></div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul
Rumelhart</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 11, 2012 9:57
AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look
See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
Yes, you'd have to be damn sure about your line of
fire. Firing in the middle of a frenzied crowd
running panicked for the exits would surely be
asking for trouble. However, it's my understanding
that for a while during the shooting the shooter had
complete control of the situation. Anyone trying to
leave was shot. Many people were playing dead in
the hopes they would be passed over. Firing on the
shooter, even if he's in body armor, might distract
him enough that some people might have made it to
the exits. Body armor doesn't make you invincible,
depending on the armor and the caliber of the weapon
used you might still have made an impact, since he'd
still be hit by the blunt force of the bullet. In
this situation, though, you would probably also have
been shot dead shortly after because he was so well
prepared (vest, leggings, throat protector, groin
protector, and a helmet with a visor). Who knows?
Telling a loved one "when I start shooting, RUN for
the exit and don't stop" might have worked.<br>
<br>
Most other shootings like this we've heard about
haven't involved such a heavily armored assailant.
In fact, quite a few of them have taken place in
areas where gun use is often restricted, such as in
schools or on university campuses. Harris and
Kliebold wore T-shirts and cargo pants at
Columbine. A student who had happened to have
smuggled a gun into the school might have been able
to have had a real impact on that event.<br>
<br>
An interesting thing to think about, in my opinion.
Apparently, that opinion is not shared on this list.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
On 08/11/2012 08:13 AM, Art Deco wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAB8VJX7U4E9YZfQGd9RgXFjkoFVraBiTcFHCs0hawhcEorvVHg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div style="TEXT-ALIGN: left">It's hard to think of
something more foolish than someone or ones with a
hand gun in a disorganized, panicky crowd trying
to shoot a person with a automatic weapon shielded
by body armor. How many more victims would be
added to the final body count?<br>
<br>
Didn't something like this happen in the Moscow
Massacre?<br>
<br>
w.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at
7:02 AM, Donovan Arnold <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid;
MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<div><span>Tom,</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>While your wife if shopping
Tri-State, you should be to. I mean come
on, support your comm<var></var>unity
why don't you. :) </span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>Donovan J. Arnold</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE:
10pt">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: times new
roman,new york,times,serif; FONT-SIZE:
12pt">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial">
<div class="im"> <b><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b>
Tom Hansen <<a
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">thansen@moscow.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b>
Sunil Ramalingam <<a
href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>>
<br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</span></b>
"<<a
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">vision2020@moscow.com</a>>"
<<a
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">vision2020@moscow.com</a>>
<br>
</div>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b>
Friday, August 10, 2012 6:47 PM
<div class="im"><br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See
What Tri-State is Promoting . . .<br>
</div>
</font></div>
<br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="im">
<div>You may very well be right,
Sunil. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's just a habit I have
acquired while in the service.
Trust those around you, but
keep your powder dry.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I saw the poster at
Tri-State. And, as I've said
before, this is the first time
I have seen such an
advertisement in Moscow. I
checked a few things out, such
as its website, phone number,
etc. etc. etc. (Hey, I needed
something to pass the time
while my wife was shopping at
Tri-State).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The more I dug, the more
red flags I found. The more
red flags I found, the more I
dug. I have so many info
sources, concerning the NFT
Academy, bookmarked for
reference I am thinking of
discarding half of 'em.</div>
<div><br>
<div>Seeya round town, Moscow.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Tom Hansen</div>
<div>Moscow, Idaho</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"We're a town of about
23,000 with 10,000 college
students. The college
students are not very active
in local elections (thank
goodness!)."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- Dale Courtney (March
28, 2007)</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Aug 10, 2012, at 6:19 PM,
Sunil Ramalingam <<a
href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="im">I've taken
such a class and in the
past had a concealed
weapon permit; who knows,
I may again. I don't think
this class is a big deal.<br>
<br>
Sunil <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">From: <a
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">thansen@moscow.com</a><br>
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012
17:41:58 -0700<br>
To: <a
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] [more] Look
See What Tri-State is
Promoting . . .<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div>
<div
style="FONT-SIZE:
medium">The
primary reason
this caught my eye
. . .</div>
<div
style="FONT-SIZE:
medium"><br>
</div>
<div
style="FONT-SIZE:
medium">I have
lived here in
Moscow for just
over twenty years.
The is the FIRST
time I have seen
concealed-weapon
classes openly
advertised in
town. Couple that
up with the
increasing
paranoia, as a
result of the
recent instances
in Aurora
(Colorado) and
Milwaukee
(Wisconsin), and I
feel I have a
right to be
curious.</div>
<div
style="FONT-SIZE:
medium"><br>
</div>
<div
style="FONT-SIZE:
medium">BTW, the
NFT Academy
website has only
been in existence
since April 2012
and was not
publicly released
until June 12,
2012 (TWO MONTHS
AGO).</div>
<br>
<a
href="http://fiddlerstudios.com/created-by-fs/announcing-the-national-firearms-training-academy-website/"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://fiddlerstudios.com/created-by-fs/announcing-the-national-firearms-training-academy-website/</a></div>
<div>
<div>I have more
info to share,
concerning the NFT
Academy and its
website, but let's
see where this
thread leads.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Seeya round
town, Moscow.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Tom Hansen</div>
<div>Moscow, Idaho</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"We're a town
of about 23,000
with 10,000
college students.
The college
students are not
very active in
local elections
(thank
goodness!)."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- Dale Courtney
(March 28, 2007)</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Aug 10, 2012, at
3:09 PM, Sunil
Ramalingam <<a
href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div class="h5">Something
legal? The
nerve! Next
they'll be
selling guns!<br>
<br>
Sunil <br>
<br>
From: <a
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">thansen@moscow.com</a><br>
Date: Fri, 10
Aug 2012
14:24:56 -0700<br>
To: <a
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Subject:
[Vision2020]
Look See What
Tri-State is
Promoting . . .<br>
<br>
<pre>
Seeya round town, Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
</pre>
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