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You'll both definitely change - and you both could change for the dramatic better and the end result of this could still send you in opposite directions that results in the ultimately dissolution of the relationship which might be a sad thing, but not necessarily a bad thing.<br><br>My comment about change was that if there are things that you don't like about your partner and you want them to change their habits, then I think you're most likely in for a lot of frustration and heartache. You might be able to get someone to behave differently for a short time, but how long will it be before they just go back to their old self?<br><br>In my opinion, good relationships just naturally bring in the best in both partners and that this effect will result in a long term change for the better. :)<br><br><br><div><div id="SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div>> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:56:15 -0700<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ques. For you: What is Most Important in a Relationship?<br>> From: philosopher.joe@gmail.com<br>> To: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>> CC: scooterd408@hotmail.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br>> <br>> Another great post, Donovan! And you nail it on the head when you say<br>> that you can't be in a relationship without changing someone. This<br>> gets to the heart of my favorite topic: the problem of free will and<br>> determinism.<br>> <br>> Can you be determined to change and still change freely? That is the<br>> question. There is always influence. Is the influence in accordance<br>> with your will (something about which you were in control, and could<br>> have refused if you had wanted to) or against it (forced upon you, you<br>> were hypnotized, you were asleep, etc.)?<br>> <br>> I'm not saying that's the only question; I'm just fixated on free will. Joe<br>> <br>> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 3:29 PM, Donovan Arnold<br>> <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com> wrote:<br>> > Joe, Chas, and Scott,<br>> ><br>> > Thanks for your input, it is very insightful and does help me. I am pretty<br>> > much in grammar school when it comes to close personal relationships. Joe, I<br>> > do not think any one more prominent than you would ever be so willing to<br>> > officiate a wedding for me. So, yes, if that event does occur in my life,<br>> > you would be the first I would ask after a Catholic Priest (as I am Catholic<br>> > so I would have to at least ask), which I know he will not approve or<br>> > preform a same sex marriage for at least another 300-700 years as they<br>> > follow behind social progress. : )<br>> ><br>> > Scott had some very good advice. Many things I didn't think about. I like<br>> > the idea too, of separating the accounts and deciding how to fund each<br>> > account, then you don't have overdrafts or someone mad running up the bill<br>> > and taking all the money every time there is a spat. I was thinking the best<br>> > way to do it would be split the major shared living bills, like rent, car<br>> > payments, cable, Internet, city services and utilities in proportion to your<br>> > incomes but keep your monies in two different accounts.<br>> ><br>> > Chas is always a good person to listen to I think as well when it comes to<br>> > personal relationships, especially for me because we both have autistic<br>> > tendencies. But he has also been all over the world and has a good grasp of<br>> > the differences and commonalities in each community. In addition, he has<br>> > managed to stay married for more than 30 years, which is a long time,<br>> > especially for today.<br>> ><br>> > I want to clarify something though about changing people, or them you. What<br>> > counts as changing someone versus just looking out for them? I for example,<br>> > don't think the single male, cigarette smoking, heavy beer drinking, pizza<br>> > every night is really a character trait, so much as just what guys do when<br>> > they are single. I mean, would it be considered trying to change someone if<br>> > trying to improve their lifestyle back to eating a little healthier, and<br>> > going out more with you then sitting on the couch eating potato chips? And<br>> > in all honestly, I don't know how one can move in with someone and not<br>> > change some of their behaviors as well as yours.<br>> ><br>> > Thanks for all your input.<br>> ><br>> > Donovan J. Arnold<br>> ><br>> > PS, as for marrying a twin, I think that should be the one exception to<br>> > polygamy. It should be a package deal of two for one, or none at all. How<br>> > would you not get jealous of your spouses twin with another person, and not<br>> > lust after another person's spouse if they are married. And you know, if<br>> > they are not married, others would know what it was like to sleep with your<br>> > spouse. The longest living nonseperated Siamese twins, Chang and Eng Bunker,<br>> > were married to two different women. That had to have been a challenge. Too<br>> > odd, yes, Joe.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe@gmail.com><br>> > To: Scott Dredge <scooterd408@hotmail.com><br>> > Cc: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com; viz <vision2020@moscow.com><br>> > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 9:27 AM<br>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ques. For you: What is Most Important in a<br>> > Relationship?<br>> ><br>> > I forgot one other thing: don't marry a twin! Joe<br>> ><br>> > On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408@hotmail.com><br>> > wrote:<br>> >> You don't need to date someone that is like you, I'd just recommend dating<br>> >> someone that you're compatible with and vice versa. You can be opposites<br>> >> in<br>> >> many ways and yet still have compatible lifestyles.<br>> >><br>> >> -Scott<br>> >><br>> >> ________________________________<br>> >> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 19:05:01 -0700<br>> >> From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ques. For you: What is Most Important in a<br>> >> Relationship?<br>> >> To: scooterd408@hotmail.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br>> >><br>> >> Thanks Scott, that does help. I think that is a good litmus test, how long<br>> >> I<br>> >> can spend in a room with someone and not want to kick them out, or them<br>> >> me.<br>> >> I don't think however I am compatible with someone that is like me. I like<br>> >> dating someone that is different and therefore more interesting. There are<br>> >> few, is any people I like sharing most my time and space with. I know the<br>> >> odds are slim of it lasting forever, but you never know unless you try,<br>> >> yes?<br>> >> I just, honestly, don't want to wake up two decades from now, be alone,<br>> >> fat,<br>> >> wrinkled, and missed out on sharing my old age and troubles with someone.<br>> >><br>> >> Donovan J. Arnold<br>> >><br>> >> From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408@hotmail.com><br>> >> To: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com; viz <vision2020@moscow.com><br>> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 7:20 PM<br>> >> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Ques. For you: What is Most Important in a<br>> >> Relationship?<br>> >><br>> >> The utmost importance is to find someone you're compatible with and who's<br>> >> compatible with you. That answers all of your questions below. A good<br>> >> test<br>> >> of compatibility is to spend a lotta, lotta, lotta, time with them. If<br>> >> you<br>> >> spend 3 hours with them and then need 3 days away from them to recover<br>> >> from<br>> >> being sick of being around them, then that's a good indication of<br>> >> incompatibility. If you can travel in close quarters for a solid month<br>> >> where you're pretty much together 24 hours a day and you don't get sick of<br>> >> each other and in fact thoroughly enjoy each others company during that<br>> >> time, that might be a good indication that you can hang together and might<br>> >> have a lot in common. If you get married to this person, you have a 50/50<br>> >> chance - at the absolute very best - at making it the distance (death).<br>> >><br>> >> I took a psychology class many years ago and the marriage statistics back<br>> >> then were bleak. The prof categorized US marriages such that out of every<br>> >> 10 marriages: 5 of them ended in divorce, 2 of them stuck together because<br>> >> of convenience, 1 of them was a dead marriage, 1 stuck together for the<br>> >> sake<br>> >> of their kids, and 1 was a happy marriage. The moral of the story was<br>> >> that<br>> >> you had a 10% chance of being happily married - and I guess you just hope<br>> >> to<br>> >> God that your spouse is equally happily married otherwise he/she can<br>> >> simply<br>> >> just say 'bye-bye' and there's not a whole heck of a lot you can do to<br>> >> keep<br>> >> your marriage from dissolving like so many of them do.<br>> >><br>> >> By the way, I've never bought into the idea that 'relationships are work'<br>> >> -<br>> >> except for bad ones. Those can be a frustratingly pile of work. Why<br>> >> bother? Life is too short to be stuck in a crappy relationship.<br>> >><br>> >> Best wishes in finding your soul mate!<br>> >><br>> >> -Scott<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 17:43:41 -0700<br>> >> From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>> >> To: vision2020@moscow.com<br>> >> Subject: [Vision2020] Ques. For you: What is Most Important in a<br>> >> Relationship?<br>> ><br>> >><br>> >> I was wondering what people look for in a life partner, what standards do<br>> >> they have.<br>> >><br>> >> What is most important in a relationship?<br>> >><br>> >> What character traits do you look for?<br>> >><br>> >> What are the deal breakers, in terms of looks, behavior, and attitude?<br>> >><br>> >> What about looks vs. personality? Would you be willing to have a partner<br>> >> you<br>> >> know you would not find that attractive in the near future, but they had a<br>> >> loving character and personality?<br>> >><br>> >> How about their health, would you continue to be with someone even if you<br>> >> knew they would leave you old and alone? Would you stay with them and do<br>> >> that to them?<br>> >><br>> >> What about financial success? Do they need to be at a certain level, or is<br>> >> any financial situation OK with a partner you love?<br>> >><br>> >> People that got divorced, what do you suggest would make a relationship<br>> >> last, not last?<br>> >><br>> >> How much are you allowed to demand from your partner, and how much should<br>> >> you be willing to change for them?<br>> >><br>> >> How about fidelity? Would you marry if you thought you could not be<br>> >> faithful, or you felt they would not be? How about infidelity after,<br>> >> should<br>> >> it end, or accepted?<br>> >><br>> >> Does the idea of being faithful, and being 50/50 partners with person for<br>> >> the rest of your life, for better or worse scare you?<br>> >><br>> >> I know these are kind of personal, and you can be vague, but I am kinda<br>> >> wondering if other people think and feel about these issues the same as I<br>> >> do. I've never seriously thought about this stuff before because I was<br>> >> young, and marriage was illegal for me until recently. It wasn't really in<br>> >> the cards until now. Now that I am getting older and marriage is an<br>> >> actual<br>> >> choice, this is kind of new for me so I have not had the opportunity to<br>> >> consider and experience these things like many of you have been<br>> >> fortunate/unfortunate to have done for your entire life. Any insights you<br>> >> can give me would be appreciated.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> Donovan J. Arnold<br>> >><br>> >> ======================================================= List services made<br>> >> available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse<br>> >> since 1994. http://www.fsr.net/ mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> >> =======================================================<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> =======================================================<br>> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> >> http://www.fsr.net/<br>> >> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> >> =======================================================<br>> ><br>> ><br></div> </div></body>
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