<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:tahoma, new york, times, serif;font-size:10pt"><div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Thanks, Joe!</SPAN></div>
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<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">I love the topic of free will too. I wrote a paper in my Logic and Critical Thinking class about free will. It was my <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-0><SPAN>favorite</SPAN></SPAN> paper up to that point in college. I contended that free will was an <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-1><SPAN>illusion</SPAN></SPAN> of sorts, and that we only thought we had free will. I proposed that all of our decisions were based on our genetics, past experiences, and the options we are given at that moment. I went through the "decision making process" and pointed out along the way how what we really thought was a choice of free will, was a choice made for us. The paper left a lot to be desired, by I enjoyed it for a <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-2><SPAN>sophomore</SPAN></SPAN> in college project, and the professor gave me an A. I do think we have some free will depending on how we would define it,
I just don't think we use it very often and many things we think are free will, are actually things we do for reasons other then we believe we do them. </SPAN></div>
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<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Donovan J. Arnold</SPAN></div>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=hr contentEditable=false readonly="true"></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe@gmail.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Scott Dredge <scooterd408@hotmail.com>; viz <vision2020@moscow.com> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, July 19, 2012 4:56 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Vision2020] Ques. For you: What is Most Important in a Relationship?<BR></FONT></DIV><BR>Another great post, Donovan! And you nail it on the head when you
say<BR>that you can't be in a relationship without changing someone. This<BR>gets to the heart of my favorite topic: the problem of free will and<BR>determinism.<BR><BR>Can you be determined to change and still change freely? That is the<BR>question. There is always influence. Is the influence in accordance<BR>with your will (something about which you were in control, and could<BR>have refused if you had wanted to) or against it (forced upon you, you<BR>were hypnotized, you were asleep, etc.)?<BR><BR>I'm not saying that's the only question; I'm just fixated on free will. Joe<BR><BR>On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 3:29 PM, Donovan Arnold<BR><<A href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A>> wrote:<BR>> Joe, Chas, and Scott,<BR>><BR>> Thanks for your input, it is very insightful and does help me. I am pretty<BR>> much in grammar school when it comes to close personal
relationships. Joe, I<BR>> do not think any one more prominent than you would ever be so willing to<BR>> officiate a wedding for me. So, yes, if that event does occur in my life,<BR>> you would be the first I would ask after a Catholic Priest (as I am Catholic<BR>> so I would have to at least ask), which I know he will not approve or<BR>> preform a same sex marriage for at least another 300-700 years as they<BR>> follow behind social progress. : )<BR>><BR>> Scott had some very good advice. Many things I didn't think about. I like<BR>> the idea too, of separating the accounts and deciding how to fund each<BR>> account, then you don't have overdrafts or someone mad running up the bill<BR>> and taking all the money every time there is a spat. I was thinking the best<BR>> way to do it would be split the major shared living bills, like rent, car<BR>> payments, cable, Internet, city services and utilities in proportion
to your<BR>> incomes but keep your monies in two different accounts.<BR>><BR>> Chas is always a good person to listen to I think as well when it comes to<BR>> personal relationships, especially for me because we both have autistic<BR>> tendencies. But he has also been all over the world and has a good grasp of<BR>> the differences and commonalities in each community. In addition, he has<BR>> managed to stay married for more than 30 years, which is a long time,<BR>> especially for today.<BR>><BR>> I want to clarify something though about changing people, or them you. What<BR>> counts as changing someone versus just looking out for them? I for example,<BR>> don't think the single male, cigarette smoking, heavy beer drinking, pizza<BR>> every night is really a character trait, so much as just what guys do when<BR>> they are single. I mean, would it be considered trying to change someone if<BR>> trying to
improve their lifestyle back to eating a little healthier, and<BR>> going out more with you then sitting on the couch eating potato chips? And<BR>> in all honestly, I don't know how one can move in with someone and not<BR>> change some of their behaviors as well as yours.<BR>><BR>> Thanks for all your input.<BR>><BR>> Donovan J. Arnold<BR>><BR>> PS, as for marrying a twin, I think that should be the one exception to<BR>> polygamy. It should be a package deal of two for one, or none at all. How<BR>> would you not get jealous of your spouses twin with another person, and not<BR>> lust after another person's spouse if they are married. And you know, if<BR>> they are not married, others would know what it was like to sleep with your<BR>> spouse. The longest living <SPAN id=misspell-3 class=mark>nonseperated</SPAN> Siamese twins, Chang and Eng Bunker,<BR>> were married to two different women. That had to have been
a challenge. Too<BR>> odd, yes, Joe.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> From: Joe Campbell <<A href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com" ymailto="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</A>><BR>> To: Scott Dredge <<A href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com" ymailto="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>><BR>> Cc: <A href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A>; viz <<A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>><BR>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 9:27 AM<BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ques. For you: What is Most Important in a<BR>> Relationship?<BR>><BR>> I forgot one other thing: don't marry a twin! Joe<BR>><BR>> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Scott Dredge <<A href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>><BR>> wrote:<BR>>> You don't need to date someone that is like you, I'd just recommend dating<BR>>> someone that you're compatible with and vice <SPAN id=misspell-4 class=mark>versa</SPAN>. You can be opposites<BR>>> in<BR>>> many ways and yet still have compatible lifestyles.<BR>>><BR>>> -Scott<BR>>><BR>>> ________________________________<BR>>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 19:05:01 -0700<BR>>> From: <A href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A><BR>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ques. For you: What is Most Important in a<BR>>> Relationship?<BR>>> To: <A href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com" ymailto="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>; <A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>>><BR>>> Thanks Scott, that does help. I think that is a good litmus test, how long<BR>>> I<BR>>> can spend in a room with someone and not want to kick them out, or them<BR>>> me.<BR>>> I don't think however I am compatible with someone that is like me. I like<BR>>> dating someone that is different and therefore more interesting. There are<BR>>> few, is any people I like sharing most my time and space with. I know the<BR>>> odds are slim of it lasting forever, but you never know unless you try,<BR>>> yes?<BR>>> I just, honestly, don't want to wake up two decades from now, be alone,<BR>>> fat,<BR>>> wrinkled, and missed out on sharing my old age and troubles with someone.<BR>>><BR>>> Donovan J. Arnold<BR>>><BR>>> From: Scott Dredge <<A href="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:scooterd408@hotmail.com">scooterd408@hotmail.com</A>><BR>>> To: <A href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A>; viz <<A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>><BR>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 7:20 PM<BR>>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Ques. For you: What is Most Important in a<BR>>> Relationship?<BR>>><BR>>> The utmost importance is to find someone you're compatible with and who's<BR>>> compatible with you. That answers all of your questions below. A good<BR>>> test<BR>>> of compatibility is to spend a <SPAN id=misspell-5 class=mark>lotta</SPAN>, <SPAN id=misspell-6 class=mark>lotta</SPAN>, <SPAN id=misspell-7 class=mark>lotta</SPAN>, time with them. If<BR>>> you<BR>>> spend 3 hours with them and then need
3 days away from them to recover<BR>>> from<BR>>> being sick of being around them, then that's a good indication of<BR>>> incompatibility. If you can travel in close quarters for a solid month<BR>>> where you're pretty much together 24 hours a day and you don't get sick of<BR>>> each other and in fact thoroughly enjoy each others company during that<BR>>> time, that might be a good indication that you can hang together and might<BR>>> have a lot in common. If you get married to this person, you have a 50/50<BR>>> chance - at the absolute very best - at making it the distance (death).<BR>>><BR>>> I took a psychology class many years ago and the marriage statistics back<BR>>> then were bleak. The prof categorized US marriages such that out of every<BR>>> 10 marriages: 5 of them ended in divorce, 2 of them stuck together because<BR>>> of convenience, 1 of them
was a dead marriage, 1 stuck together for the<BR>>> sake<BR>>> of their kids, and 1 was a happy marriage. The moral of the story was<BR>>> that<BR>>> you had a 10% chance of being happily married - and I guess you just hope<BR>>> to<BR>>> God that your spouse is equally happily married otherwise he/she can<BR>>> simply<BR>>> just say 'bye-bye' and there's not a whole heck of a lot you can do to<BR>>> keep<BR>>> your marriage from dissolving like so many of them do.<BR>>><BR>>> By the way, I've never bought into the idea that 'relationships are work'<BR>>> -<BR>>> except for bad ones. Those can be a frustratingly pile of work. Why<BR>>> bother? Life is too short to be stuck in a crappy relationship.<BR>>><BR>>> Best wishes in finding your soul mate!<BR>>><BR>>> -Scott<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Date: Wed, 18
Jul 2012 17:43:41 -0700<BR>>> From: <A href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A><BR>>> To: <A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Ques. For you: What is Most Important in a<BR>>> Relationship?<BR>><BR>>><BR>>> I was wondering what people look for in a life partner, what standards do<BR>>> they have.<BR>>><BR>>> What is most important in a relationship?<BR>>><BR>>> What character traits do you look for?<BR>>><BR>>> What are the deal breakers, in terms of looks, behavior, and attitude?<BR>>><BR>>> What about looks vs. personality? Would you be willing to have a partner<BR>>> you<BR>>> know you would not find that attractive in the near future, but they had a<BR>>> loving
character and personality?<BR>>><BR>>> How about their health, would you continue to be with someone even if you<BR>>> knew they would leave you old and alone? Would you stay with them and do<BR>>> that to them?<BR>>><BR>>> What about financial success? Do they need to be at a certain level, or is<BR>>> any financial situation OK with a partner you love?<BR>>><BR>>> People that got divorced, what do you suggest would make a relationship<BR>>> last, not last?<BR>>><BR>>> How much are you allowed to demand from your partner, and how much should<BR>>> you be willing to change for them?<BR>>><BR>>> How about fidelity? Would you marry if you thought you could not be<BR>>> faithful, or you felt they would not be? How about infidelity after,<BR>>> should<BR>>> it end, or accepted?<BR>>><BR>>> Does the idea of being faithful, and being 50/50
partners with person for<BR>>> the rest of your life, for better or worse scare you?<BR>>><BR>>> I know these are kind of personal, and you can be vague, but I am kinda<BR>>> wondering if other people think and feel about these issues the same as I<BR>>> do. I've never seriously thought about this stuff before because I was<BR>>> young, and marriage was illegal for me until recently. It wasn't really in<BR>>> the cards until now. Now that I am getting older and marriage is an<BR>>> actual<BR>>> choice, this is kind of new for me so I have not had the opportunity to<BR>>> consider and experience these things like many of you have been<BR>>> fortunate/unfortunate to have done for your entire life. Any insights you<BR>>> can give me would be appreciated.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Donovan J. Arnold<BR>>><BR>>>
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