<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">"The bottom line to all of this is 'might makes right'. "--Scott Dredge</SPAN></div>
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<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Yes, it does. So it is best to make sure you are on the same side as the mightiest. </SPAN></div>
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<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Donovan J. Arnold</SPAN></div>
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<DIV style="RIGHT: auto" dir=ltr>Donovan,<BR><BR>The bottom line to all of this is 'might makes right'. Checkmate.<BR><BR>-Scott<BR><BR>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=hr contentEditable=false readonly="true"></DIV>Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 08:06:29 -0700<BR>From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<BR>To: philosopher.joe@gmail.com<BR>CC: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] About Evidence<BR><BR>
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<DIV><SPAN>Joe writes;</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN><FONT size=2>"God can do anything. If what is right and what is wrong were defined by him, he could redefine things at will and make it wrong to eat toast and right to rob and steal. Does that make sense to you? Not too me. This view -- the divine command view -- makes morality relative just like the the majority opinion view."</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN><FONT size=2>The <SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxmisspell-0><SPAN>definition</SPAN></SPAN> of moral is to do what is right, not wrong. Without a definition of what is right or wrong nothing can be moral or immoral. God decides what is wrong or right. Otherwise the <SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxmisspell-0><SPAN>definition</SPAN></SPAN> would fall on people. Then people would be overruling God on what was right and wrong and thus what was moral and immoral. They would be telling their creator and master what is <SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxmisspell-1><SPAN>acceptable</SPAN></SPAN> behavior or not. It would be dogs telling there owners how it can behave or third graders telling their teacher the classroom rules. Does that make sense to you?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN>It is true, however, God could change what is right to wrong and what is wrong to right. And at that point what was wrong would be right, and what is right would become wrong. He has the power and authority to do this just as lawmakers can change what is legal to what is illegal and make what is illegal once again legal. God gets to define right and wrong, and lawmakers get to decide legal and illegal. It is not the actions themselves that make them legal, illegal, moral or immoral, but the authority behind those decisions. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN>Is the North Pole still not the North Pole just because it moves? is the Earth still not required to spin around the Sun even though the Sun moves relentlessly around the galaxy? Can the Moon leave the Earth and still be called the Moon? God can move right and wrong every year. We still have to follow it. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN>Donovan J. Arnold</SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=yiv1298661268hr></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe@gmail.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> <SPAN id=misspell-0 class=mark>Chasuk</SPAN> <chasuk@gmail.com>; viz <vision2020@moscow.com> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, July 18, 2012 7:45 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Vision2020] About Evidence<BR></FONT></DIV><BR>
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<DIV>God can do anything. If what is right and what is wrong were defined by him, he could redefine things at will and make it wrong to eat toast and right to rob and steal. Does that make sense to you? Not too me. This view -- the divine command view -- makes morality relative just like the the majority opinion view. <BR><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Jul 18, 2012, at 4:17 AM, Donovan Arnold <<A href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN>By definition, it is not possible to live a moral life and denounce God. There is no absolute definition of right or wrong in any situation without a God to define it or regard it as such. All actions would be <SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxyiv695525027misspell-0><SPAN>amoral</SPAN></SPAN> with positive or negative <SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxyiv695525027misspell-1><SPAN>consequences</SPAN></SPAN> depending on the person and their individual perspective. At best, right and wrong would be defined by the majority or people. Since most people consider denouncing the <SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxyiv695525027misspell-2><SPAN>existence</SPAN></SPAN> of God, and preaching against him as immoral, an <SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxyiv695525027misspell-3><SPAN>atheist</SPAN></SPAN> would not be moral or living a moral life. An <SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxyiv695525027misspell-4><SPAN>atheist</SPAN></SPAN> could live a life which they had more of a
<SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxyiv695525027misspell-5><SPAN>positive</SPAN></SPAN> impact on people than a negative. </SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN>Regarding <SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxyiv695525027misspell-0><SPAN>Einstein</SPAN></SPAN>, he believed in God. He belonged to the Jewish <SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxyiv695525027misspell-1><SPAN>religion</SPAN></SPAN>. If he did not, he along with many other notable and talented <SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxyiv695525027misspell-2><SPAN>scientists</SPAN></SPAN> would have remained in Germany. If that <SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxyiv695525027misspell-3><SPAN>occurred</SPAN></SPAN>, Germany would have developed the nuclear bomb along with their rocket instead of the US. That is an example of where the world is better off because of religion. </SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN>Donovan J. Arnold</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=yiv1298661268ecxyiv695525027hr></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <SPAN id=misspell-1 class=mark>Chasuk</SPAN> <<A href="mailto:chasuk@gmail.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:chasuk@gmail.com">chasuk@gmail.com</A>><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Donovan Arnold <<A href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A>> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> <SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxmisspell-2 class=yiv1298661268mark><SPAN id=misspell-2 class=mark>lfalen</SPAN></SPAN> <<A href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com" rel=nofollow
target=_blank ymailto="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen@turbonet.com</A>>; viz <<A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>> <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:06 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Vision2020] About Evidence<BR></FONT></DIV><BR>Speaking as an atheist, I don't need belief in God or gods to live a moral life.<BR><BR>Atheism is the lack of belief in deity, nothing more, nothing less.<BR><BR>As for the Einstein quote, Einstein also wrote this:<BR><BR>"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product<BR>of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of <SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxyiv695525027misspell-2 class=yiv1298661268ecxyiv695525027mark><SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxmisspell-3 class=yiv1298661268mark><SPAN id=misspell-3
class=mark>honourable</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>, but still<BR>primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No<BR>interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."<BR><BR>And of his own Jewishness he wrote:<BR><BR>"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the<BR>most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly<BR>belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no<BR>different quality for me than all other people. As far as my<BR>experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although<BR>they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power.<BR>Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them."<BR><BR>Chas<BR><BR>On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 9:51 PM, Donovan Arnold<BR><<A href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</A>> wrote:<BR>> "Some beliefs provide
motivation to fly jets into tall buildings, and some<BR>> convince parents to withhold medication to sick children. Some beliefs<BR>> promote misogyny, racism, and homophobia."<BR>><BR>> And atheism teaches us none of it is wrong, as there is no God, just<BR>> science.<BR>><BR>> "Science without religion is lame"--Albert Einstein.<BR>><BR>> Donovan J. Arnold<BR>><BR>> From: <SPAN id=misspell-4 class=mark>Chasuk</SPAN> <<A href="mailto:chasuk@gmail.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:chasuk@gmail.com">chasuk@gmail.com</A>><BR>> To: <SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxmisspell-5 class=yiv1298661268mark><SPAN id=misspell-5 class=mark>lfalen</SPAN></SPAN> <<A href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen@turbonet.com</A>><BR>> Cc: viz <<A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>><BR>> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:28 PM<BR>><BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] About Evidence<BR>><BR>> There are not 7 billion different belief systems, or anywhere near<BR>> that number. At best, there are a half dozen, regurgitated and<BR>> recapitulated into a fistful of semi-unique varieties. And some<BR>> beliefs are harmful. Some beliefs provide motivation to fly jets into<BR>> tall buildings, and some convince parents to withhold medication to<BR>> sick children. Some beliefs promote misogyny, racism, and homophobia.<BR>> Not all beliefs are equal.<BR>><BR>> =======================================================<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> serving the communities of the <SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxyiv695525027misspell-5 class=yiv1298661268ecxyiv695525027mark><SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxmisspell-6
class=yiv1298661268mark><SPAN id=misspell-6 class=mark>Palouse</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> since 1994.<BR>> http://www.fsr.net<BR>> <SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxyiv695525027misspell-6 class=yiv1298661268ecxyiv695525027mark><SPAN id=yiv1298661268ecxmisspell-7 class=yiv1298661268mark><SPAN id=misspell-7 class=mark>mailto</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>:<A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>> =======================================================<BR>><BR>><BR><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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