Part of this did not make it V2020. Sorry for the slip up.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Art Deco <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com" target="_blank">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Addendum:<br><br>Here is one case of millions of cases where using fantasy instead of knowledge leads:<br><br><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/17/world/asia/pakistan-taliban-polio-vaccine/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/17/world/asia/pakistan-taliban-polio-vaccine/index.html</a><br>
<br>w.<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 8:44 AM, Art Deco <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com" target="_blank">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Reply to Joe on values:<br><br>I agree that there is no final way to prove a value. <br><br> However, in discussions of values facts play an important, if not indispensable role. Values change as knowledge increases. Obvious examples: Treat mental health problems with therapy rather than stigmatizing them and attribute their cause to be possessed by devils, or understanding that in part at least, gender sexual preference has a genetically determined element.<br>
<br>Values are also determined in part by considering the consequences of such values. Many consequences or probabilistic, fact like statements.<br><br><br>I am surprised that Joe has not pointed out to Donovan that all his responses commit the fallacy of Begging the Question or Circularity (assuming what you are trying to prove in some form or other).<br>
<br><br><b>However</b>, the point for the genesis of this whole thread is an answer to the question: On what basis should decisions be based: Knowledge claims for which verifiable evidence can be adduced to support, guess, or fantasy?<br>
<br>The underlying issue is the freedom to act in accordance with what is at any given time the most accurate knowledge claims. Claims, for example, in ancient writings that same gender marriage cannot be allowed according to some unverifiable, untestable, basically incomprehensible bogeyman in the sky is an unjustifiable abridgement of personal freedom forcing decisions to be made on superstition and fantasy, not knowledge.<br>
<br>A corollary: Evangelistic Libertarianism is an oxymoron.<br><br>w. <br><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 8:18 AM, Chasuk <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chasuk@gmail.com" target="_blank">chasuk@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 8:10 AM, Donovan Arnold<br>
<<a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" target="_blank">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> I see your Sam Harris and raise you a Jesus H. Christ.<br>
<br>
> If interested, you can read about Him in the New Testament. It is a best<br>
> seller.<br>
<br>
</div>I've read it. Parts of it were pretty good.<br>
<div><div><br>
=======================================================<br>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
<a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br></div></div><div>-- <br>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<br><a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com" target="_blank">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a><br><br></div>
<img src="http://users.moscow.com/waf/WP%20Fox%2001.jpg"><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<br><a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com" target="_blank">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a><br><br><img src="http://users.moscow.com/waf/WP%20Fox%2001.jpg"><br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<br><a href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com" target="_blank">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</a><br><br><img src="http://users.moscow.com/waf/WP%20Fox%2001.jpg"><br>
<br>