<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Wayne writes, "Slipped again. Thank you, Ken"</SPAN></div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">That's OK Wayne, nobody is perfect but God.</SPAN></div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"><I>"Donovan:<BR>You have not addressed the questions asked. You merely use unproven claims to attempt to avoid answering the questions, to wit: Exactly what is the "testament" of 6 billion people? Do these so-called testaments agree with each other? What exactly is the evidential component of their evidence?"</I></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">I assure you, I am not attempting to evade anything. Setting aside the actual numbers for now, many people have testified to the world, that they have seen, heard, felt, touched, tasted, or <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-0><SPAN>otherwise</SPAN></SPAN> experienced the force of a supernatural force they define as God. That is evidence. Witness testimony, shy of a <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-1><SPAN>camera</SPAN></SPAN>, is the strongest evidence you can have. Witnesses can be wrong and they can lie. But that is why we usually need more evidence than one person. As 95% of the world population believes in a God, absent any <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-2><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">contradicting</SPAN></SPAN> evidence, a <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-3><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">rational</SPAN></SPAN> person must conclude there is some type of God even without
any personal experience.</SPAN></div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">You attempt to <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-4><SPAN>singularly</SPAN></SPAN> counter the <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-5><SPAN>testimony</SPAN></SPAN> of 95% of the population that there is a God with no evidence of your own to support your claims, and to <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-6>questioning</SPAN> their <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-7><SPAN>rational</SPAN></SPAN> as being less perfect than your own. That is <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-8><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">irrational</SPAN></SPAN> thinking. </SPAN></div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Further, you write:</SPAN></div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">"At one time most living beings thought the world was flat. Is the world flat?<BR>At one time most living beings though mental illness was caused by possession by devils/demons/etc? Are devils/demons/etc the cause of mental illness?<BR>At one time most living beings thought the sun revolved around the earth. Does the sun revolve around the earth?"</SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Yet, all of these false thoughts were discredited by the one <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-9><SPAN>piece</SPAN></SPAN> of evidence you seek to discredit, witness <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-10><SPAN>testimony</SPAN></SPAN>. <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-11><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Sailors</SPAN></SPAN> and <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-12><SPAN>mathematicians</SPAN></SPAN> <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-13><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">testified</SPAN></SPAN> the world was round not flat. Scientists testified it was biological, not ghosts that created mental illness. It was witness testimony of astronomers and mathmaticians that proved the Earth was rotating around the Sun. </SPAN></div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"></SPAN> </div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Image if <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-15><SPAN>everyone</SPAN></SPAN> refused witness <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-16><SPAN>testimony</SPAN></SPAN> as you do, and insisted on traveling the Earth, <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-17><SPAN>dissecting</SPAN></SPAN> brains to make sure their was verifiable evidence of no demons, and trying to learn the math and positions and <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-18><SPAN>movements</SPAN></SPAN> of the stars, <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-19><SPAN>planets</SPAN></SPAN>, and Sun all on their own? It wouldn't work well, and people would never be able to establish policy and beliefs. Witness <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-20><SPAN>testimony</SPAN></SPAN> is the backbone of evidence, it is strong enough to send a man to his grave.</SPAN></div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto"> </div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto">"You have failed to understand the problem of asserting knowledge claims without verifiable evidence. Just because someone is greatly enamored by a fantasy does not mean it is true. A theory is true if it leads to true predictions, else not."</div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"> </div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto">No, a theory can still be false if it leads to true predictions because of other factors. Fire for example was misunderstood for most of human <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-1><SPAN>existence</SPAN></SPAN> <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-2><SPAN>precisely</SPAN></SPAN> because their false theory was good at predicting it. Same with the planets, a more complicated prediction model was invented, that actuarately predicted planets and stars placements in the sky. </div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"> </div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto">You fail to understand that witness <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-21><SPAN>testimony</SPAN></SPAN> is verifiable evidence in addition to other <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-1><SPAN>circumstantial</SPAN></SPAN> evidence, like we exist as does a universe for no <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-23><SPAN>apparent</SPAN></SPAN> reason and came into being from seemingly nothing which <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-2><SPAN>defies</SPAN></SPAN> the laws of nature as they appear to be. And when placed against the <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-24><SPAN>absence</SPAN></SPAN> of evidence to the contrary, we must go with the witness testimony-not the minority view with no evidence.</div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"> </div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto">You also fail to recognize the <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-25><SPAN>fallibility</SPAN></SPAN> and <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-26><SPAN>fantasy</SPAN></SPAN> thinking you hold that impacts how you think. As no brain is perfect, or capable of fully comprehending all elements in their world, we all operate with altertered sense of what is reality. being such the case, your version of God's <SPAN style="RIGHT: auto" id=misspell-28><SPAN>existence</SPAN></SPAN> is also a fantasy. It is also a fantasy that is a minority view point and has little verifiable eviden<VAR id=yui-ie-cursor></VAR>ce--like Christ Church. </div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto"> </div>
<div style="RIGHT: auto">Donovan J. Arnold </SPAN></div>
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<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=hr contentEditable=false readonly="true"></DIV><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Art Deco <art.deco.studios@gmail.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> vision2020@moscow.com <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, July 18, 2012 2:36 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [Vision2020] Fwd: About Evidence<BR></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV style="RIGHT: auto" id=yiv157310420>Slipped again. Thank you, Ken<BR><BR>
<DIV style="RIGHT: auto" class=yiv157310420gmail_quote>---------- Forwarded message ----------<BR>From: <B class=yiv157310420gmail_sendername>Kenneth Marcy</B> <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com">kmmos1@frontier.com</A>></SPAN><BR>Date: Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 12:38 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] About Evidence<BR>To: Art Deco <<A href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</A>><BR><BR><BR>
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<DIV>Wayne:<BR><BR>Did you intend to send this to Donovan rather than to me?<BR><BR><BR>Ken
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<DIV class=yiv157310420h5><BR><BR><BR>On 7/18/2012 12:17 PM, Art Deco wrote:<BR></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="RIGHT: auto" class=yiv157310420h5>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="RIGHT: auto" type="cite">Donovan: <BR><BR>You have not addressed the questions asked. You merely use unproven claims to attempt to avoid answering the questions, to wit:<BR><BR>Exactly what is the "testament" of 6 billion people? Do these so-called testaments agree with each other? What exactly is the evidential component of their evidence?<BR><BR>At one time most living beings thought the world was flat. Is the world flat?<BR><BR>At one time most living beings though mental illness was caused by possession by devils/demons/etc? Are devils/demons/etc the cause of mental illness?<BR><BR>At one time most living beings thought the sun revolved around the earth. Does the sun revolve around the earth?<BR><BR>You have failed to understand the problem of asserting knowledge claims without verifiable evidence. Just because someone is greatly enamored by a fantasy does not mean it is true. A
theory is true if it leads to true predictions, else not.<BR><BR>If people want to believe in various gods and goddesses, but do attempt to force others to act in accordance with their beliefs, the problem becomes greatly diminished. It becomes a problem when some says "My God dictates that you shall do X or shall not do Y" and then passes laws without any or very little other evidence based justification to enforce this fantasy.<BR><BR>That's called theocracy or religious dictatorship. It leads to things like The Inquisition and The Crusades. You can choose to enable such, but for many us unwilling to sacrifice personal freedom and what we believe the overall well being of humankind and other beings, no thanks.<BR><BR><BR>w.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=yiv157310420gmail_quote>On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:46 AM, Kenneth Marcy <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:kmmos1@frontier.com">kmmos1@frontier.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
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<DIV>On 7/18/2012 10:54 AM, Donovan Arnold wrote:<BR></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN>Like the financial planners of today got it all figured out right?</SPAN></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV>The disconcerting non-specificity of your reference 'it' notwithstanding, the fact of the matter is that our seriously under-regulated and significantly over-connected system of financial transaction data transmission and storage poses uncomprehended dangers to persons and organizations whose financial affairs have been reduced to electronic patterns stored on machines they neither own nor control. The opportunities for, and the dangers of, large-scale electronic malfeasance regarding financial affairs that should be maintained as fiduciary trusts, but are not, has never been greater.<BR><BR>Unfortunately, the drive for private profits from among those electronic patterns has never been so persistent or so pervasive, with the result that financial wealth and control of assets has never been so great or concentrated among so few. The
system is increasingly designed so as to not require large robberies at particular time points, but to do as effectively or better the same transfer of wealth and control by continual erosion via a plethora of individually small, but collectively substantial, financially corrosive agents.<BR><BR><BR>Ken<BR></DIV><BR>=======================================================<BR> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR> http://www.fsr.net<BR> mailto:<A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>=======================================================<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR><A href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</A><BR><BR><IMG><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR><A href="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:art.deco.studios@gmail.com">art.deco.studios@gmail.com</A><BR><BR><IMG src="http://users.moscow.com/waf/WP%20Fox%2001.jpg"><BR><BR></DIV><BR>=======================================================<BR>List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR> <A href="http://www.fsr.net/" target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net/</A><BR> mailto:<A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" ymailto="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>=======================================================<BR><BR></DIV></DIV></div></body></html>