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<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Calibri>The first amendment most emphatically is
the right to offend. There is nothing but what some faint heart will not find it
offensive. The idea of pandering to the lowest common denominator is offensive
to me. How will you salve my delicate sensibilities?</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=philosopher.joe@gmail.com
href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">Joe Campbell</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 14, 2012 11:06 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=godshatter@yahoo.com
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul Rumelhart</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">viz</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Welcome to Confederate Latah County . .
.</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>This is my last post. You keep twisting what I am taking great pains to
explain.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>People have a choice to go to a website; not always so with regard to a
building, especially this one. I doubt as someone is walking through the
building and sees a confederate flag their first thought is "history
lesson."</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The idea that some people find symbols of slavery -- and like it or not
that's what the confederate flag is -- offensive is not an indication that those
folks are too sensitive. If anything it is an indication of your lack of
sensitivity and good judgment that you fail to realize how this flag is more
than a flag.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I'm not criticizing the display or the people who promoted it. I haven't
seen it. I'm criticizing your general arguments, all of which are bad. I'm
criticizing you and your continual defense of offensive symbols and documents
associated with hatred and bigotry. This is nothing new. You've been doing this
for years and I've been criticizing you for years.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>My main point in nearly all of my comments to your posts is simple, though
you continue to fail to appreciate it. There is NO such thing as the right to
offend; you can't hide behind free speech or educational opportunity in an
effort to do so.<BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Jul 14, 2012, at 9:20 AM, Paul Rumelhart <<A
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV class=moz-cite-prefix><BR>We're talking about a historical display in
which the use of a flag from that time period simply as a prop makes
sense. Do you think it was the intent of the historical society to
offend people who... are easily offended by this symbol?<BR><BR>You seem to be
arguing that we shouldn't, for example, show an image of a swastika on a web
page that explains what the swastika is. Are these images *so* offensive
that we need to eradicate them from our society completely? If so, how
do you plan on getting every single person on-board with this?<BR><BR>I just
think that the right not to be offended is subordinate to the right to free
expression. Of course, we're talking about the Courthouse here which
brings in different issues, I realize. But generally, I think this is
true.<BR><BR>I'll leave it to the historical society or whoever it was that
put up this display to defend it's educational value. <BR><BR>I just don't
understand the vehemence here. I get offended occasionally by things I
see on TV or signs or the occasional commercial or advertisement I run
across. When that happens, I shake my head at their foolishness,
recognize that people have other viewpoints and the right to express them, and
move on without creating a big stink about it. In my opinion, if
everybody did that we'd live in a much less confrontational and less divisive
world.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>On 07/14/2012 07:17 AM, Joe Campbell
wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:C889DFF0-EAEA-4188-9C35-8933A2A4E0A8@gmail.com
type="cite">
<DIV>You are frustrating to talk to. First, it was a bit of a joke. Also,
you're not tracking the quantity terms: all, some, etc. My view is not that
ALL herpes displays should be banned. Of course such things COULD be
helpful. But when and where and for what purpose? IN GENERAL were someone to
say "There's a herpes display downtown" and it turned out not to be at
Gritman, it should make you scratch your head.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I think Idaho and our town in particular is not in need of a
confederacy flag on display. Has anyone forgotten about the civil war? Is
there anyone who might see the display who would learn something new? I just
don't see it. The educational value of the display is little or nothing. You
haven't done much to convince me otherwise. Nor do you seem to care about
the particulars. Your view seems to be that we need to display offensive
symbols, or at the very least that every display of everything offensive
symbol needs to be defended, least we lose our God-given right to
offend!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>That is an odd, curious view. Not every instance of every offensive
symbol has educational value. I think the burden is on the defender of the
display of the offensive symbol to show that it has educational value that
overrides its offensive nature and you're not doing that because you're
speaking in generalities and not about the particular display
itself. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>My view is that there is NO general defense of the display of offensive
symbols. If someone wants to educate that is fine but I don't see the
educational value in this case. You don't seem to care.<BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Jul 13, 2012, at 6:41 PM, Paul Rumelhart <<A
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">godshatter@yahoo.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV class=moz-cite-prefix><BR>Why not put up a display about (for
example) herpes? What it is, how you get it, how you can recognize
it, how you can avoid it, what are the available treatments for it,
etc. If some society did put up a display about this in the
Courthouse, I certainly wouldn't object to it. It's educational,
it's a problem that education can help with, an so forth. What it
would not be, presumably, is some kind of glorification of the state of
having herpes.<BR><BR>I also object to the simple idea that any display of
the Confederate flag in any context is always meant as support for the
idea of slavery. I can't think of a symbol that so immediately makes
you think "Civil War" than either the Confederate flag or the Union Jack,
so (not being subject to being offended every time I turn around) finding
one in a display that discusses some aspect of the Civil War makes perfect
sense to me. <BR><BR>I don't have kids, but if I did, I would want
them to live in a world where they would know what the Civil War was about
and what herpes is. Having more information about incest (think
genetic reasons not to do it) and rodent infestations (possible health
concerns) wouldn't hurt them, either.<BR><BR>I also object to your snarky
"Well, most of us at least." line. Arguing for the use of the
Confederate flag as a device for decorating a display about something that
is connected to that war does not mean that I don't know about the ills of
slavery. Do you really think I treat slavery as something other than
an evil upon our society? <BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>On 07/13/2012 01:03
PM, Joe Campbell wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
cite=mid:CA+fbP8wAL8JeuF-7M3ExeFo6cSyKhXYaw7fwaZqAhqu8D0Q4aw@mail.gmail.com
type="cite">Why not a display about herpes, or incest, or rodent
infestation? Wouldn't want to censor those, would we? After all, we
don't want to sugarcoat the horrible world we live in!
<BR><BR>What good does it do? None. We all know about the ills of
slavery. Well, most of us at least. Joe<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:38 PM, Paul Rumelhart
<SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">godshatter@yahoo.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<DIV><BR>One doesn't nuance slavery, but we shouldn't sugar-coat it
either. It's a historical display. We shouldn't be
self-censoring it because people might find the confederate flag
offensive. Some people would find the union flag offensive, if
they had ancestors that died on that side of the war.<BR><BR>As a
community, we should not be afraid to look at this display
unflinchingly and remember the positives and the negatives of that
conflict. Be very, very careful about self-censoring our
history. As a country we have done some pretty bad things, to
each other and to people outside our borders, and those things should
be remembered.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>On 07/13/2012 11:56 AM, Rosemary
Huskey wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
would call a confederate flag placed in a display about a
confederate soldier with ties to Latah County A Celebratory Nod to
Racism. Help me to understand how one nuances slavery,
Paul. If you are under the impression that tolerance of the
intolerable is a badge of liberal honor, then I assume you
understand completely why I despise and mock the latte sipping
liberals that are so thick on the ground in Latah County.
</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Rose</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<A href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</A> [<A
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Paul Rumelhart<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 13,
2012 11:35 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Joe Campbell<BR><B>Cc:</B>
viz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Welcome to Confederate Latah
County . . .</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR>Would you call placing a confederate flag in
a cabinet housing an historical display about a confederate soldier
that has a tie to Latah County in the Latah County Courthouse
indefensible?<BR><BR>Because I wouldn't.<BR><BR>Also, the
one-dimensional liberal / conservative axis is failing us
here. We need more nuance in American politics than
that.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>On 07/13/2012 09:47 AM, Joe Campbell
wrote:</P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>I think it is best to avoid defending the
indefensible, anything to do with slavery in particular. There are
A LOT of better uses for your words and your motivations will
always be questioned -- no matter how many times you call yourself
a liberal.<BR><BR>Joe</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><BR>On Jul 13,
2012, at 9:33 AM, Paul Rumelhart <<A
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">godshatter@yahoo.com</A>>
wrote:</P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR>You have to walk on eggshells around
here, lest your honest opinion be mistaken as an attack on all
things liberal. Which is ironic because I consider myself
to be a liberal (at least on some issues). And I hate
walking on eggshells.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>On 07/13/2012 12:25 AM,
Scott Dredge wrote:</P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>Wow! - welcome
back to the V Paul. You're a much better man than I am!
[note to myself: never share a painful personal experience
trying to make a perfectly valid point on the V lest you be
savagely crucified by 'holier than thou' Tom and
Donovan)<BR><BR><SPAN
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<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>Date: Thu, 12
Jul 2012 18:13:51
-0700<BR></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
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